🔴 5 Tips On How To Talk To New Clients

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welcome inside the dojo you guys you're

gonna want to stick around for this

episode this one is going to be meaty

and it's gonna help you make catching

it's gonna make you some money alright

welcome inside the dojo I'm Chris doe

let's get right into it all right today

we're gonna talk about the five rules

for running a successful sales call and

I'll tell you a story in a little bit

about why we're having this conversation

the first place it's mostly Matthews

idea and the reason why was because this

morning we're having a discussion inside

the program and some of you guys like

what's the Pro Group Chris what's going

on well the pro group is a group

consisting of almost 200 entrepreneurs

they're from all over the world from all

corners of the globe from Australia to

parts of China to the US of course to

Canada and everywhere in between parts

of Europe and it's a group of diverse

people of different backgrounds

designers developers architects branding

people copywriters presentation

designers all kinds of people and it's a

private and secret group kind of like

Fight Club so you know the rule about

Fight Club what happens inside Fight

Club stays inside Fight Club we just

don't talk about it you do not talk

about Fight Club something else you want

to know its consists of weekly group

coaching calls there's over a hundred

hours of exclusive videos that have been

recorded and archived and edited for the

people in the program to watch and you

get to see beta products basically

things that aren't ready for primetime

you get a sneak peek and when I say

sneak peek it could be six months or


before these products actually hit the

wider market sometimes I include decks

so you get the decks but really the

reason why people love the program is is

it's because there's a community of

people that you can share and talk about

you can practice with your peak

performance partner and you can do the

role plays that we teach you on the show

with like-minded individuals and it's a

blossoming community it cost 150 bucks a

month that's what it costs to get inside

Matthew is going to share with you right


the link in the chat link inside the

chat and join up for the competition

let's just go easy on my lower or poppin

P in the picture-in-picture

you're doing a little bit too much let's

back off on that a little bit okay and

you might be thinking to yourself wow

that's a lot of money and it can be but

then you have to think about value so

the natural question is is this right

for me should I be joining it well I'm

gonna tell you something instead of me

answering that question I'm just gonna

tell you what we talked about today now

I've broken it down today's call was a

little bit longer than two hours with I

think 48 people on line with me today

but I'm gonna give you a little glimpse

about what happens inside the program

right now right here okay so today as I

promised we're gonna talk about five

rules to for successful your first sales

call okay not their first call ever but

your first sales call with this new

client that you're trying to onboard and

what I want to tell you is they're

different tiers and clients that you

need to sell to what we realized on the

pro call today Matthew was that people

were taking verbatim things that I was

teaching inside this community and we're

talking on sideface Facebook and also on

YouTube and they were applying it and

they didn't take into consideration that

there was a broad spectrum of clients

and where they're at right right and

their own situations right yeah because

because you know you're speaking from

the 23 years of experience mhm and then

people in our group are sometimes

looking for their very first client so

there's quite a bit of range of people

and what was interesting in this

morning's Pro call is that you had

everybody record their sales calls yeah

and it was super fun it was super

interesting so the whole group got to

listen into about four different calls

mm-hm and we broke it down all the

things they did right and all the things

they need to work on so that was

fantastic to hear and it just so

happened that we had three different

levels right somebody who's trying to

get their first client somebody who's

trying to land anywhere from like 8 to

10 K for an engagement and then somebody

who was going big 50 to 100 K I believe

yeah 50 80 thousand dollars but so we

could quickly realize that each person

had their own challenges what was kind

of remarkable on the call today was that

everybody was listening to the call

thinking that was a pretty good call

that's kind of what I would do and then

after I broke it down the

maybe I need to change the way I do my

sales call and so we're gonna share with

you a little bit about what we talked

about without revealing any of the

confidential information that's talked

or spoken about within the group because

that's the first rule of pro group right

first rule is we don't talk about that

so let me break it down for you like

this here's how it looks okay so I kind

of created this matrix of different size

jobs under five thousand five to thirty

K 30 to 200 and over 200 and what I

realized when I was working with my

business coach many years ago is this

what I realized was that I thought I was

playing at the a league the highest

level but my coach told me once you get

into the north of $200,000 most clients

can choose to work with whomever they

want whomever they want

Jona whomever they want you can cut to

me now yeah I'm not even looking at the

deck yet so they can work with whomever

they want that means that the love of

competition isn't just like who's best

in your town who's best in your city or

state it's who's best in the world and

that means the level of competition went

way up so he told me back then that I

thought I was playing in the majors he's

like you're playing in the minor leagues

son you need to grow up you need to

learn how to play in that game so it's

important for us to understand that

there are many different tiers and in

order for you to break through the

ceiling from one tier to the next you

have to acquire different skills and the

sales process is very different and you

have to talk to them very differently

the mistake is to take one rule one

thing and make it work for all things

and that's just not how it works at

least in my own experience so let's go

back to the deck here so here we go

under $5,000 the way I look at is the

project scope is something like this

usually didn't want a logo an identity

system maybe or a piece of print

collateral a brochure something like

that a menu design and those are

generally going to be under 5k in the

onboarding process or the sales cycle is

immediate they're usually ready to go

it's not a complex thing I need a logo

sure so let's not drag out the sales

process now let's not have multiple

calls and proposals and all kinds of

things that's too much okay so people

that are in the under 5k from a client

point of view what you should do is give

them a verbal quote that's what they

need you need to be able to say this on

the very first call

otherwise you're wasting your time and

you're wasting their time you're

overselling this one client and if they

agreed to the price say you say you know

doing a logo like this will be $4,000 or

4,000 pounds wherever you're from and

they say that sounds good let's move

forward what you want to do is then just

send a one-page engagement letter this

could be an email or something like this

we don't need to get into contracts

necessarily because that's overly

complicated for logo what it should say

is this what I'm gonna do this is what

it costs here are the terms as soon as

you pay me 50% up front remember we're

gonna get 50% up front as soon as you

pay me that I'm gonna get started and it

should take three weeks to do and you

get two revisions so you want to

describe what it is you're gonna do

pretty quickly okay let's move on to the

oh here's a tip here's the tip here is

usually if they say I'd like to proceed

with you one thing is you don't want to

go past a sale once they say yes once

they're interested stop selling stop

describing the process and all the

things that you bring to the table

you're only going to potentially

jeopardize the engagement so once you

hear something like yes move on to the

next thing so it sounds like we're in

agreement I'm gonna send you a letter

that sums up everything we talked about

today and we're including the price and

as soon as I get a 50% deposit

non-refundable deposit from you we're

gonna move forward and I'm gonna get

going okay here's tip number two is a

lot of you guys hear this especially

with my conversations with Melinda who

has been scaling up from doing add any

design to doing branding to doing brand

strategy is now strategy sounds really

sexy everybody wants to do and of course

I want you to do it

but maybe you're just not ready to do it

right now and what I don't want you to

do is to risk losing the job because you

want to sell something many rungs above

you in terms of your skill and

experience when you could just take a

job down get a quick win put money in

the bank pay down some of your loans buy

some baby formula do what you got to do

just bring the job home okay

right right and that was something that

came from our call this morning where

one of our guys it was trying to be his

first job and he was trying to sell

strategy really hard and the client

wasn't really into it not into it at all

yeah and he had a hard time trying to

even describe what it was so I think

just based off of that call we weren't

even sure if he knew what strategy was

if he would be able to confidently

execute that if you were able to sell it

so if it's not something that you feel

like you can confidently sell and

execute for the client don't bother

selling it either yeah I think to Kidd

to kind of keep everything in context

here I think at the very beginning of

your career when you're in school out of

school never went to school there's that

first couple of years we'll call it like

you year one like Batman year one or

daredevil year one you're just learning

the ropes oh you're gonna fall you're

gonna break things like break your body

you're gonna get into lots of things

where you don't know how to handle

yourself don't try to fight the

super-powered villains yet just take

down the petty criminals just work with

those people first right it's like yeah

I want to help Batman take down whatever

nefarious person but just take down the

bank robbers just take down the

shoplifters those are the people you can

take down and do that acquired a skill

acquire the experience it grows

confidence in you put money in the bank

and then move up okay let's move on to

the next tier it gets a little trickier

each tier that we go down it's going to

get a little bit trickier and the

process changes quite a bit so between 5

to 30 K and that's a pretty big jump I

didn't want to sit here and slice it too

many ways to finally write is probably

branding you're probably going to get

into maybe some video work or

presentation design and a basic site and

basic site means something that's not

overly complicated with different types

of users user personas definitely not an

e-commerce site nothing like that and

it's a big branding side I wouldn't even

touch that I'm talking about something

very simple for my mom for a mom-and-pop

kind of customer okay

the onboarding process now gets a little

bit more complicated so if you're gonna

drop on the higher end $30,000 it's

you're gonna want to think about this

you want a comparison shop but you're

going to want to do reviews and check

out your referrals so that's gonna take

a little bit longer so don't try to

close this one on the first call this

one's gonna take a couple of calls so

here's what they need they need a verbal

quote and this is going to be consistent

on every single column or every single

yeah column verbal quote you are going

to probably send a one-page proposal now

I changed the language here on purpose

an engagement letter says let's get to


this is what you expect now we're gonna

get a little bit heavier because $30,000

if you think about it is the price that

you would pay for a car so you're not

gonna go out and just buy a car sight

unseen no reviews no contracts and

you're gonna buy the car you want to

make sure you have the papers it's been

checked out it's legitimate this is a

good dealer okay so one page proposal

and most likely you're going to have to

do at least one follow up call so you

talked about the price we have an

agreement we understand the scope we're

gonna send a proposal which is a

reflection of what we talked about if

you're listening to Blair hands are you

reading his book the the proposal is

what you say and the proposal is the

back up to what you say so that's all it

is it's just going to back it up meaning

this is what we said in case we heard

each other differently then you're most

likely gonna do a follow-up call after

they get the proposal but there should

be no issue at this point because you

already have agreement in terms of

budget and timeline so we're ready to

move forward

okay and because it's getting a little

bit more complicated as you approach the

upper echelon of the price point here

you're going to want to include terms

and agreement payment terms cancellation

fees who owns what etc hours of

operation those are pretty standard as

well okay and I'm not here to it's kind

of necessary plug our product but I

think we cover a lot of this in our

legal kit and you guys can get that on

our site somewhere and math you'll

probably find that just okay Matthew do

we need to take any questions so far

we'll should we just keep going how many

people are watching right now on YouTube

got 179 watching 179 of you are going to

make more money after this call today or

after this video passed okay if you guys

have any questions plug it in there

right now

nothing's striking but I think we're

starting to see the build up which is

great so from the first year to the

second tier yeah we're starting to see

the onboarding process getting a little

bit longer and requiring a little bit

more effort in terms of nurturing the

client to get to the sale correct and

it's gonna get progressively more

difficult here we go tier number three

let's look at tier number three to

number three now you're gonna get into

the big leagues a little bit between 30

to 200 thousand pretty big jump there


now instead of talking about logo or

identity system you're gonna get into

branding which is crafting more than

just the way something looks the way it

sounds you're going to influence any

kind of customer touch point you might

be working on a TV commercial or a


industrial video you might be in charge

of some of these social media campaign

we're building things now you have to do

strategy you might have to build a more

complicated site the onboarding process

again at the upper end might take you

somewhere between one to three weeks and

that's because the clients again need to

talk to people and now there's a good

chance when you're getting into the

higher end that the person that you're

talking to is not the decision-maker

they might be the chief somebody or the

executive somebody but they're not the

key decision-maker because usually those

people aren't going to vet all vendors

okay and so what's gonna happen is

you're gonna present to them and you're

gonna talk to them and again you're

gonna talk about the money upfront and

this is where you may make a soft pivot

to strategy if this is something that

interests you in this price point you

can and probably should talk about

strategy and understand a bigger client

pain point you may be required to

provide a capabilities deck which might

describe your team your services a

client roster a logo quilt if you will

and referrals those kinds of things and

they might ask you to pitch and put an

asterisk next to that because this is

something that's required of us to do

for commercial jobs it's not something I

like to do it's not something I want to

do but if you want to be in the

commercial making business making TV


generally speaking everybody in industry

does this vendors and clients alike now

I would like to get rid of that

altogether but the reality is if you're

in that industry it's very hard to get

rid of something that's been ingrained

in our system for decades right okay for

sure you'll do a follow-up call and now

we want to get into terms in agreement

and a contract so it's getting a little

bit more complicated and you have to

determine for yourself how best to

proceed now we can talk on a different

call not a sales call today on how you

get around the pitching process all too

but I don't want to get too far off

track lastly lastly OOP I'm sorry not

lastly I have a tip here I'm not even

looking my own deck here I'm staring

into the screen okay

inquire if the client has done strategy

discovery before now if you want to sell

strategy don't start saying yes this is

what we do we do core and describe the

process and all that kind of stuff

what you want to do is say have you done

strategy or discovery before and you

have a 50/50 shot they're gonna say yes

or no if they say no fantastic

well this is good because I'd love to

help you guys with your brand strategy

or a messaging strategy or your social

media strategy let me ask you a couple

of questions okay and even if they say

yes this is what you're gonna say here's

your tip if they've done strategy before

just ask were you able to determine what

your customers pain points and

challenges are why don't they buy or use

your product or service more often did

you write a user journey what did you

learn from doing strategy and discovery

before now notice all of these are

questions because by asking these

questions you're going to get the

clients to figure out if what they've

done in the past is of any real relevant

value at all there's a good chance if

they haven't done any of this before

just by asking these questions they

start to look and think of you a little

bit differently because most creatives

don't even bother asking any of these

kinds of questions because they're not

even aware of this process so by

illuminating customers their decision

and the decision patterns and why they

do or don't do something as it relates

to your product or service helps the

client to understand wow this person is

thinking more strategically than the

last three people I spoke to so you're

already going to differentiate yourself

put yourself on a notch above everybody

else because chances are most people are

going to be talking about look and feel

color palettes typefaces and they're

gonna talk about design and they're

going to talk about kerning typefaces

and all that kind of stuff and so you're

gonna try to push apart that crowd

you're gonna separate yourself you're

gonna create a gap that exists between

everybody else that's hungrily chasing

this job and you and you want to create

that in the clients mind now if you ask

these questions they don't have great

answers fantastic that means

is an opportunity for you to say I'd

love to help you with this this is what

we do for our clients and now this is

what we charge to do that and what I

would do is if you've never sold

strategy before float on a number $5,000

$10,000 the number is not really that

important the idea is really important

that you're going to create a separate

line item for thinking you're going to

start to bill for thinking and that's

really important most of us just give it

away for free thinking that that's just

the cost of doing business that ideas

are intangible they don't really have

value that things that I make have value

and I think quite the opposite my ideas

are more valuable than the things that I

make because the things that are made

can be done by just about anybody in the

world given enough time and money right

but I'm the only person who thinks the

way I think that you right and I think

that what you said this morning and a

pro call was show don't tell yes so what

I like about that is if you're asking

these very high quality questions where

you're probing and really deep and

you're trying to get underneath and

understand the intent why a client might

be doing this branding project is TV

commercial this social campaign whatever

it is if you understand the intent

behind it and you figure that out and

surface that through quality questions

you're already demonstrating that you're

thinking strategically I think one

challenge that we saw on the pro call

this morning with me a lot of people

they were spending so much time

describing the process well in strategy

this is what we're going to do this

we're going to do first second and third

and they spent five minutes talking

about the process when they should have

done just demonstrating it what does a

strategic process looks like and by

asking these key questions you'll find

out one are they super smart that they

already do the strategy stuff ahead of

time because if they had then there's no

need for you to even sell that yeah if

they haven't all of a sudden you become

highly valuable you become somebody

who's asking questions that nobody is

asking them and nobody is considering

because you're right the competition's

probably ask well what should it look

like how long should it be what are the

colors what font and they're getting

they're talking about the aesthetic

design rather than the effectiveness of

what this campaign could be for their

business yes this can be summed up when

you're talking too much about features

versus benefit features as

kind of the way it looks and feels and

the benefits is how it impacts the end

user very different okay we have some

questions on YouTube right now so I'm

gonna look at some of the questions

there somebody is writing a four-page

proposal for a hundred dollar job like

that doesn't even make sense to me right

for $100 and you're writing four pages

how long did it take you to write those

four pages if it's of any real value

right so what you're doing what Blair

calls you're in the proposal building

business right and that's not the

business you're really and you're in the

business of making logos or identity

systems or branding or strategic

thinking you're not in the proposal

building business and now you spent a

couple hours making this and if you pay

yourself thirty bucks an hour twenty

bucks an hour all of your money's gone

all your money's gone and you haven't

even gotten the job yet right so really

get confirmation from the client does

$100 work for you no first of all let's

see who is his name his name is Gauri

Gaming so Gauri gaming you need to

change your price point right now today

all you have to do is go out there and

say my new price point for doing logo

work is five hundred dollars is that

something that you can afford it's just

something you want to spend money doing

mm-hmm start there and we're not gonna

get into how to overcome objections

along that that's not this the purposes

it's just how to have a good successful

first sales call and I'm gonna teach you

some of the rules of engagement and help

you understand not only the tiers but

things that you can do okay I'm gonna

get back into Dec Matthews there another

question no not really I'm looking right

now okay no I got to filter it in my

broker okay let's do that then let's

jump back in now this is kind of the

upper echelon the highest tier and when

I say over two hundred thousand dollars

it could be for a million or two million

dollars we've done million dollar

projects here before on campaigns so

here's what it looks like

usually the project scope is something

for branding a marketing campaign there

are multiple components to this thing

maybe you're getting into app design it

can easily see the budget skyrocketing

with an app design or maybe an

e-commerce site and sites that are

really complicated like a hotel booking

thing anything with booking and

reservations where there's front-end and

back-end stuff that has a tie-in to a

database that gets pretty complex and

sites that have more than I would say a

hundred pages those are pretty complex I

know there's a lot of work for you

a lot of coordination okay the

onboarding process here and here's where

you need to learn to be patient it could

take anywhere between two to eight weeks

I've seen these projects last even

longer than eight weeks in terms of

onboarding and when I say onboarding

means from the moment in which you

talked to the client from the initial

outreach to the point in which they sign

a check and gave you a 50% deposit for

the job it can take some time again

they're spending a lot of money now

instead of buying a car you're looking

at buying a house not in California but

you're buying a house somewhere

somewhere else the United States away

from the coast right so now this is a

really big decision again it's not any

different notice in each and every

single column I say a verbal quote you

need to talk about the money you need to

talk about upfront

definitely strategy and they're gonna

probably send you an RFP which stands

for request for proposal so what you're

gonna send back is a proposal or a

response either term means the exact

same thing okay and again we can talk

about strategies on how to respond to a

request for proposal but not on this

call you're gonna have multiple costs

because for sure you're not talking at

this point to the primary decision-maker

very rarely but you might be talking to

a c-suite person somebody that might be

a chief marketing officer or chief

revenue officer somebody like that and

this is where you're gonna get probably

into a master services agreement which

is a blanket agreement that you guys

work through goes back and forth between

attorneys which is going to be the

document that you reference and then

you're gonna add addendums to this

you're gonna say appendix or Exhibit A B

and C and that's gonna be for the

specific job but the master service

agreement is something that you're gonna

want to create or have done for you for

something where you stand to become the

agency of record so the process is much

longer now now it's much more involved

and chances are your team is a little

bit bigger than just one person

operation but that doesn't mean that you

can't do two hundred thousand

dollar-plus engagements and be a solo

operand operator okay so here's some

tips here that you need to remember okay

the bigger the engagement the longer the

onboarding process and inversely that is

also true

the smaller the budget the shorter the

onboarding process so don't drag it out

do not mix these two up because you're

gonna mess it up you're gonna create

confusion for both people one is you're

going to seem really

needy and pushy to close a big

engagement and that's how it works

and these are signals that you're

sending out unknowingly to the client to

say I do not know what I'm doing this is

my first rodeo and this scares the

client and if if it's a mom-and-pop

who's looking for a quick solution to a

design problem under five K don't drag

it out don't make a master service

agreement they'll laugh at you it's like

I'm not gonna spend money or time

reading this contract this makes no

sense I'm gonna spend more time reading

your contract and review it with an

attorney then the whole projects worth

doesn't make any sense to me here's

another tip for smaller budget projects

don't oversell give the client surprise

and let them decide they're either gonna

know what's right or not right and

they're gonna move on and that's totally

okay all right so here's what it looks

like all together probably a good time

for you guys to do a quick screen

capture right now I'll give you two

seconds I'm moving on okay now here's

something that you need to think about

what is your objective for a sales call

what do you need to know before you get

off the call now my business coach

taught me this he said when you get on

the phone what are you trying to get

from the client and before you taught me

this well like I don't know I'm trying

to get a sense for the project so it's

like it's very loose if you don't have a

clear agenda objective in your mind how

do you intend to be able to get that

information that you need or to

establish the rapport that you need with

the client and he described the whole

process as kind of herding cattle

through a chute and eventually you want

to get him on the truck or through the

to the fence or whatever and we with the

questions are designed to kind of drive

them through a chute okay so here's the

problem a lot of you guys watch our show

take copious notes and you look at it as

almost a script you have all these

questions that you want to ask and you

hold on to these things so I'm gonna

tell you right now forget the scripts

just forget about them don't worry about

it and then why why is that because when

you're worried about when you're

worrying about reading the script or

falling along a predestined set of

questions you're not present to the

moment you're not really engaging with a

client and when you're not engaged with

a client here's what happens so look at

my eyes here's what happens okay

when they answer a question

on your script like here's my script I'm

like yeah what do you want this project

to do and they start answering this and

then they answer not in a way that you

want them to but they answer a whole

bunch of things and now you're circling

through and you're like oh they already

asked answer that and I can't ask

question number four number seven you

know I've been there you're just

checking it off on a list and you don't

want to do that what you want to do

instead is you want to build rapport and

you build rapport and I'll teach you how

to do that a little bit you want them to

feel like you guys speak the same

language that you know what they know

and you share the same values and that's

really important to them okay so what's

an alternative to memorizing scripts

well there's a better way to do this and

I'm gonna give you a Reiner before I

give you the answer I wanna give you a

quick reminder okay transactions happen

only when there's a value exchange okay

there's a value exchanged between two or

more people and the way it works is this

did my animation work you come up let me

try again

let me try again here well there's a

value change so your client she has

something that you want and most likely

it's to get paid so you're like okay

great I want to get paid so you just

need to remember that for a second what

is your client want your client wants

something else to she well I went

backwards sorry about that she wants

something that she's gonna love it could

be a logo

it could be branding and keeping

messaging she wants to achieve certain

results maybe she needs to get a

promotion maybe she needs an award

winning campaign to tell her bosses

she's really good at doing this thing

she needs to onboard more customers

whatever it is she needs something done

and that's what you do for her so what

happens in the whole value exchanges

both you get what you want and only when

both of you feel like you're getting

more than what you gave then a deal is

made okay that's what you would consider

a mutual benefit or what Blaire ends

refers to as the double thank you where

you both genuinely think the other

person for giving you something more

than what you gave them

so she values the result more than the

money that she's going to give you and

you value the money more than effort and

the creation of the thing that she needs

makes sense right okay so what you need

to know is to have a clear idea now that

the real

why bring up the whole value exchanges

both of you guys want something most of

this conversation has been focused on

what you want what you need so let's

look at this in two columns so I want

you to sit there and think about this

for a second everybody what are the

three things the clients need to know in

order to work with you so what are the

three things the clients need to know in

order to work with me you whatever sit

down and write this figure out what this

is what are the three things that they

need to know and then on the other side

is what are the three things that I as

the creative need to know in order to

work with them hmm

all right doesn't that makes sense so

within the program we sat down together

as a team as a group of 48 people we

started writing down different ideas and

I'm gonna give you just another second

to how to think about this and this is

how clear it needs to be what are those

things so let's pretend like we're all

working together into Pro Group and we

would ID 8 so it looks something like

this well the clients need to know price

how much can I afford you are you within

the price point in which I can afford

experience do you have enough of what it

is that I'm looking for do you do

architectural branding do you do

technology branding do you have that

kind of look in your portfolio like of

illustration or a graphic flat look

whatever it is that they think they need

do you have that of course timeline how

long will it take you to do what they


I've seen your portfolio it's great I'd

only have two weeks oh you could do it

in seven days fantastic maybe we can

make this work your body of work your

portfolio most people think that's all

that matters it does matter but it's not

the only criteria and soon you'll find

out which ones are the most important

okay so generally speaking when I hire

creative I look for somebody that fits

my needs the style or the experience

whatever it is they might need to know

capabilities what else can you do is

there more that you can offer me do you

do social media strategy are you a

one-stop-shop for my creative needs they

need to know if they can trust you and

that's the big one that seems obvious

but not everybody's focused on that and

we'll talk about that a little bit more

do you provide enough social proof are

there testimonials are you well rated

are you

Better Business Bureau and recommend or

whatever JD Power and Associates

best-in-class kind of thing they want

social proof they want to know if other

more famous more successful people have

worked with you and what they have to

say they need to make sure that they're

minimizing the risk because if they hire

you especially when we're getting into

the third and fourth tier of projects

where it's a much bigger project where

someone can literally lose their job by

picking the wrong vendor they need to

minimize their risks in their exposure

okay maybe they want to know more about

your process again more relevant in the

upper tiers less relevant in the lower

tiers and they're unclear how this works

so you can explain it to them you can

it's better if you explain it on your

website and even better if you explain

it through animation or video so that

they don't have to ask that question

when they talk to you because it's very

clear how you do what you do and last

but not least they're all like you can I

envision working with you in the next

couple of weeks or over the next few

months and this becomes an issue

personality this is about building

rapport and then I asked the group what

do you think the top three things are

that the clients need to know in order

to make a decision to work with you and

here's what they said and what I asked

him to think about is imagine if this

were family feud and we pulled 100

designers when we asked them what are

the number-one answers what would they

say and here's what they came up with

price trust and like hmm so these are

the three things that when a client is

on a call with you or in a meeting with

you these are the three things in their

head that they need to get out of that

meeting because they're vetting

potential candidates or clients and

these are the three most important

things that they feel that they need yes

and then they need to know other things

but we want to prioritize because when

we try to do everything we do nothing so

it's good to focus on three things

price trust and do I like you now when I

asked you if you're watching this was

that the answer you wrote down mm-hmm

have you ever even thought about what

your clients need to know and how long

have you been in business where you have

not thought about this before and this

could be a game-changer for some of you

to actually look at from the other point

of view to be on the other side of the

conversation and say this is the person

I would really want to work with do I

like this person you

they're saying some shady things when I

asked him about price they were kind of

like dancing on ice and it was just

really hard to pin them down and when I

asked for a simple answer and they gave

me a super complicated answer I start to

envision like oh my god is the entire

relationship going to be like this I'm

not sure I want to work with this person

when you start to understand how the

other person on the line makes a


it can change your game okay now let's

try to do the other side of this which

is what are the three things that you

need to know now there's a good chance

you know abuse things because you should

be thinking about them but let's make it

super clear so let's dive into it right

I'm grace my deck hello here we go so

the the one thing that you're gonna need

to know right away is budget can they

afford me because they come calling so

many of you guys will tweet at me Chris

they wanted a full branding thing and

then they told me they had four hundred

dollars lol well we need to know that

right away the sooner the better because

we're wasting everybody's time if we

don't get to the budget the goals what

is it that they want to achieve by doing

this thing that's a higher-level kind of

question again if you're in the upper

echelon I would start to think about

that we need to know what their

ambitions and challenges are we want to

know what the scope and the timeline is

because yes they can afford me I

understand everything

but if they need something done in a

timeline that I cannot deliver on in

terms of the quality of work that I can

do and then that's not going to work so

if you know that up front you can say I

can get this done I can do a great job

for you but instead of taking two weeks

it's gonna take four weeks if you're

willing to go through the process with

me I can deliver something great it's

not something you can do or know if they

say no before you say goodbye you

probably should say something like mmm

okay given that you can't eat that you

don't have more time the only other way

I can take this on is to bring on more

people and to work longer hours at night

can you afford more money so there's

some kind of triangle where all this

stuff makes sense between the budget the

goals and the schedule okay let's keep

going are you the decision maker

these are answers that the pro group

came up with they want to know if

they're the decision maker do I like

I mean they like me but let's say you

are a vegan and there's a kind of

pepperidge farm meat package product

that you just don't want to work on well

for professional reasons for personal

reasons this is not a good fit for me my

company at this time there's people that

I know who can do a great job for you

I'm gonna recommend them to you and I

wish you the very best okay and you can

explain to them I'm a vegan and I've

been vegan for 10 years and I just can't

in good conscience take this on you

deserve somebody who loves your product

as much as you do gonna be fair open and

honest and non judging okay something

else that they say I need to know what

their pain points are Oh previous vendor

didn't deliver on time I wasn't

unresponsive or non-responsive meaning

it took them too long to respond to

requests their process wasn't

transparent they were too opaque they

had a conversation with this and they

disappeared for four weeks and they gave

us something and though it was good it

was not what we were expecting it's not

what we wanted mmm sound familiar

okay those are pain points are they

engage in the conversation does it seem

like they're busy texting some money

while talking to you are their eyes

glossed over you know they have that

glazed look they're not engaged

probably not a good fit for you can I

solve their problem I love everything

that they do and what they want but I

just don't have it within my wheelhouse

so maybe there's not a good fit for me

okay and there's different ways of

responding to that too what are they

afraid of how does this go wrong and you

can ask them that what keeps you up at

night those are good questions to ask

your client and lastly I too need to

build rapport with them okay I need to

build rapport with them all right so

when we asked everybody oh I jumped the

gun there nah I can't believe I did that

sorry guys okay forget that I did that

so Chris is just using this these are

the top things that people came up with

in the pro group of the things that they

need as vendors to get out of their

calls with their clients hmm so then we

prioritize what are the top three things

that we think that we need to get out of

that call right and so I'm gonna give

you guys a second take a look at this

list and see did this match your list is

there something else here that we forgot

and if we did go ahead and put

the comments below okay and then now I'm

going to prioritize this list and I

asked the group what were the top three

things that bubbled up well here we go

budget scope and timeline and can I

solve their problem all right now it

didn't take a rocket scientist no genius

here but you noticed there uncannily

similar and handily similar between

these two mm-hmm okay well price and

budget that's kind of the same and we'll

talk a little bit more about this in a

second so I want to ask you guys do we

have shared goals between the clients

and ourselves in terms of what we want

to accomplish on that first call

together so looking back at this list

well let's try to make some connections

here where we're you know we can do this

look at that okay so client wants to

know how much it's going to cost and you

want to know do they have enough budget

for me right and ask yourself this

question right now how often have I

gotten on the call and I was afraid to

talk about the budget even or when the

clients asked me about the budget i

hemmed in hall and i was like i'm sure

and i went through a lengthy explanation

did that helped me to build trust

did that help me to create rapport will

this client like me because I'm so

awkwardly uncomfortable talking about

money so it's actually unprofessional

for you not to talk about money and this

is going to be like a brain meltdown for

some of you because you thought like I

just want to talk about the art and the

design and I thought talking about the

money is really crass and rude and it

devalues my work it has a creative human

and a spirit in the world and actually

actually what's happening here is you're

creating the sense within the clients

mind that you don't know how to run a

business that you're uncomfortable

talking about business everybody needs

to know a price point imagine if you

went to the supermarket or the

electronics store right how much is that

well kind of yeah well what day is today

yeah you know how much work was put into

this packaging no no how much is that I

mean your your your patience on that

it's gonna be like this and you're out

like this person is trying to sell me

something I don't trust this person all

right let's keep going on here when we

looked at trust trust is a little bit

more complicated to build so naturally

when we ask to brew

what builds trust we made these kind of

connections well look at that animation

yeah this is a new animation feature

Matthew right it's pretty nice so in

order for a client to have trust they

need to you need to ask them what are

their goals right you need to ask them

what are some of their ambitions and

challenges what's getting in the way of

getting yet achieving those goals what

are their pain points and trying to keep

them engaged in the call right so if

you're doing your job properly you're

asking solid questions and you're trying

to and you're listening and you're

listening and you're giving them what

they want essentially then you're

starting to build real trust with them

that's right right so clients will feel

like oh you know what they understand me

they understand my business or they're

just giving me exactly what they they

want that guy is a straight shooter he

just give me the price for the logo I

know exactly what I'm getting I know the

steps regardless of what tier you're on

if you're on the really upper echelon or

if you're the higher me and let's do

this right now yeah right that totally

works and it depends on the size of the

client and what they need so if they're

ready to go and they're ready to sign a

check for a very simple scope and you

should say yes and let's do it that's

the right price

unless rock and roll don't sit there and

try to prolong the process it doesn't

make any sense

okay and we know when we're at a party

and you know this you've been at a party

before it somebody comes up to you they

start talking to you and what happens

they just go on and on and on and on and

you're like whoa I'm looking for this

scape I'm trying to look for I'm looking

for something to save me so I'm like hey

Mary yeah hey I gotta go talk to my

friend so the last thing you want to be

is that person who keeps talking who has

no sense of what the other person is

feeling or thinking about you cannot

read other people you're kind of

emotionally like not there all right you

don't want to do that okay let's go back

to the deck do I like you do I like you

well I will like you if we build rapport

so what does rapport Chris because some

people don't know what that word means

okay rapport is do we believe in the

same kinds of thing do we have the same

values and belief systems do we want the

same things do we connect on so many

different levels and there's a great

video and I'll include it in the link

below at some point in the description

notes on this great video from

Tony Robbins on how to build rapport we

need to match and mirror the other

person because we like people who are

like us or who we'd like to be more like

so if we see somebody that is a designer

we have instant rapport if they're in

the same field of design if they're in

the same city if they had the same

background at they speak in similar ways

so those are ways that you built rapport

so you're trying to find commonality

okay you're trying to find that middle

ground or that bridge to connect their

world in your world

so it helps here when you're older when

you have more experiences when you're

more traveled and you have different

cultural influences because there's a

good chance you can tie into something

that's there and that's why I love

talking to people because I want to

learn about them and I'm listening for

something where I'm like oh I can relate

to that

okay you ever have a friend describe to

you a dish that you've never had before

let's say if you never had fusion food

like say Korean Mexican food like a Kobe

what is that called Kobe pork taco

something like that mm-hmm

is that right Matthew I get that right

yeah okay all right yeah let's say

you've never had that before so you're

trying to describe to somebody else

who's never had that before

well we know what tortillas taste like

and they're not quite sure so you might

say well there's kimchi and that's kind

of spicy and sour kind of like a really

spicy pickle maybe right and it's napa

cabbage and you just cut so you're

trying to find that thing that the

common ground to build a bridge between

what they know and what you know and

find that commonality that's what you're

trying to do right okay

all right does that help it helps all

right before I go on with the rest of

the deck I think we're about 20 to 25

minutes in here mm-hmm do we have any

questions we need to answer Aaron yes

okay Aaron get your question right in

case you see something you can either

ask a question for yourself or on behalf

of the group but after you go ahead

okay so Derek Elliot asks how soon do

you talk about the price once you get on

the call and you do the pleasantries

hello how early do you talk about the

price on that call okay that's a very

good question what's the person's name

Derek Elliot

Derek here's my quick answer to this it

depends on how often you're finding that

there's a mismatch between what the

clients can afford to spend and would

you charge as a minimum level engagement

so if you're getting a lot of calls

where they're coming in at to $400 in



thousand dollars I would bring up the

conversation about price right away

almost immediately okay and if that's

not happening too much I wouldn't worry

about it that means that your

positioning and where you're creating

leads from is aligned to your brand so

people are finding you on 99designs or

Fiverr or on Craigslist there's a great

chance that they cannot afford what it

is that you do because you're fishing in

the wrong pond you want to catch a big

fish you got to go to the deep ocean you

can't fish in the small pond so if

you're getting a lot of clients like

that look at where you're building leads

from look at your website look at the

work that you do and is it similar

enough to companies that do what you

want to do that charge them out of

monies that you want this is very easy I

think in 2018 as we're drawing too close

towards the end of the year here it's

very easy to reverse engineer what other

people are doing how they set up their

things how they're talking to the client

their tone and a messaging the value

proposition what benefits are providing

and say to yourself I really like what

they do

I imagine that these are the clients

that are getting and therefore the

prices that they're commanding look at

that and look at your work and close the

gap just close the gap that's all you

need to do okay sweet all right so

that's an easy one Matt you have a more

difficult one or another there are

several questions about pricing and let

me try and ask these in order so that we

could tackle them in in a good way so

Joey is asking what if the client says

just tell me the price let's get started

just tell me the price fantastic tell

them the price do we need to quickly

roleplay this or what I just do it real

quick okay let's do it hey Chris you

know I need a logo done how much how

much would you charge for that I want to

get started right away hi Matt without

knowing too much about your business I'm

going to tell you that our logos are

gonna cost anywhere between five to ten

thousand dollars is that something you

can afford yeah I think so fantastic so

if I submit to you a proposal later

today for eighty five hundred you're

good with that sounds perfect okay

fantastic and I'll do that and we'll get

rockin and rollin that's it

cool it's that simple okay and here I

want tell you a couple things I gave him

a price range and I'm gonna anchor

pretty high there so if I only wanted

five thousand I'm going to say between

eight to ten or five to ten

so that he starts to understand there's

a range there and because he had no

resistance to the price point that had

floated out there I know he's

comfortable with the higher end she'd he

pushed back a little bit he's like I

don't know yeah that's a little bit more

than I thought so then you can say on

the lower end so you're okay with maybe

6,500 he goes yeah that'll work

and you now know that you were able to

charge $1,500 more than what you're

gonna ask for with a five thousand

dollar price right it's that simple okay

I made it simple normally we do a little

bit more in yes but I want to keep this

going so there's a follow-up question

then for from David he's asking what if

the client was an exact price right give

me an exact price I just did roll you

gave a range right and then I said what

and then you said well what about if I

do 480 500 are you okay with that right

I do get to the price right and I think

there's ways to tackle that right and

the reason why you might want to kick

the can down the road and spend a little

bit of more time on the call is because

you want to understand very clearly what

the scope of the job is how many

deliverables how many rounds what's the

timeline so that you can determine am I

in this for two rounds of revisions with

this client for three weeks or am I in

this for three months with the client

with ten rounds of revision right so you

need to define that on the call and

that's why it's very important to

diagnose on the call ask really good

questions yes so that you understand the

full scope like we were talking about

previously okay you know what we can do

let's do that again same set up okay

view different way to respond okay Chris

hey I need a logo done and I was

wondering if you could tell me how much

that's going to cost well I'd love to do

this for you but it depends what do you

need well I need a logo from a website

and for my brochure okay and signage on

in my shop okay you pretty decisive

person or you need to see lots of things

I kind of know would not see it but okay

so you need a little bit more

exploration right mhm and do you think

you can commit to say three to five

rounds of revisions is that something

you can commit to I'm hoping we won't

need that many rounds but me too yeah so

you say you okay cuz you said I'll know

if I can know when I see it

that usually tells me a person needs to

see a lot of stuff right and that's

going to impact how

work I put into this totally makes sense

okay and I ask a couple more questions

and you tell me some stuff and then

based on that now I understand how much

work I'm gonna need to do right so then

maybe Chris could you give me a sense of

what would three rounds cost versus five

rounds so that I have some cons yeah you

know what to be honest between three to

five rounds really not even that much a

difference in price mm-hmm I'm probably

gonna come in somewhere around eighty

seven hundred dollars is that okay for

you eighty seven hundred dollars and

that would be for three to five rounds

of divisions if we need that cool you

seem like a straight shooter let's go do

this fantastic great all right cool okay

let's keep going on tyrant Titan is

saying I fish in stagnant waters on the

sidewalk and big smiley face laughs

something like that well if you fish in

those kind of waters you're gonna catch

absolutely nada no no actually you will

catch something you'll catch a cold

all right let's keep moving on anything


Aaron you got something there's a lot of

good questions and there are I'm not

sure which ones you would deem good but

you get to pick because you read the

questions okay okay I mean this one

seems like a little too in-depth like

how do you go about getting work if you

have no contacts in your network so

you're kind of starting from zero yeah

this is a sales lead kind of question

and so I think this is about how to do

the first sales call so let's just say

you do some cold outreach and when

somebody you reach out to somebody you

friend friend request them on LinkedIn

you you request a link and something

happens and then you might start to

build rapport or dialog with them and in

what you're really looking for is a

compelling event that's happening in

their business in their life and a

compelling event is something that

warrants change and anything that is a

driver of change means they're ready to

look for additional help here's some

examples of a compelling event they're

expanding well they need to hire more

people to have more things to do and

they can't handle capacity they're

they're downsizing

well they need more help now because

they are outsourcing everything there's

a trade show owner event and these

things happen on a regular basis of one

way to look for leads is to look around

schedules for trade shows and every

industry has a trade show big and small

look at when those trade shows happen

and then rewind that about four months

out and get in touch with people start

building rapport with them then okay

because they're gonna make those

decisions at least four months out so

maybe the the safer thing is to start to

build rapport with them six months out

so you're looking for a big change

that's happening in their lives

somebody got promoted somebody got fired

they acquired a company they sold a

company something like that there's a

change you cannot manufacture a

compelling event so what you have to do

is you have to probe around you have to

ask some questions to kind of figure out

what is a day in their life like what's

going on right now what's coming down

the line that they're gonna need help

with and if you align with that then

fantastic I'd always caution I would

also caution you that the first

conversation that you have with them you

don't try to sell them it's a big

turn-off like get to know me before you

try and sell me so when people do that

to me I just pretty much delete and

block them forever so don't do that to

me you guys don't connect with me on

LinkedIn and start selling me right away

I'm not gonna do it because what you're

saying to me is I don't really care

about you all that cares about is me

right the big turn-off okay so I think

for any future questions Aaron I think

would be good to stay on topic that is

more on lead-gen and I think we really

want to focus today's call on the sales

call so you have you got the client on

the call and this is your guys's first

interaction they have a project for you

how do you maximize and optimize that

call what are the tips and tricks that

we could do so that you could close that

job or lead them towards the sale so

that that onboarding process is as

painless as possible

and you're doing all the things that we

mentioned earlier which is to build

rapport give them a sense of what the

budget would be like and what was the

third one Chris what repor budget budget

and what was the third one scope scope

and timeline or that the client wants oh

the client wants trust and do I like you

and budget right there you go cool yeah

so those are things you just need to

give them so let's focus any questions

you guys have from here on out to focus

on that this initial sales call so that

you can close it right yeah so I have a

I have some follow-up questions here for

in terms of strategy because we were

talking about the range right the people

who are charging sub 5,000 probably you

shouldn't be charging strategy and

they're just looking for execution right

clients just want that but for those of

us who are selling strategy and you

asked the client have you done this

strategy before have you done strategy

before then they answer the questions

that you're asking about their users as

you know journeys and it doesn't sound

correct it doesn't sound right it

doesn't sound logical how do you then

how do you respond to that yeah how do

you respond to these Alliance easy okay

this is what you're gonna say now

unfortunately and I'm gonna say it like

I'm speaking to the client right

unfortunately Matthew there's a lot of

people who who talk to talk but actually

don't walk the walk the fact that I

asked you a few basic surface level

questions and you to have great answers

tells me you may have been sold a bill

of goods that somebody promised you

something and unfortunately what you

probably got was a deck full of

marketing speak and really no valuable

insight to you whatsoever and that's the

problem so before we go and execute a

solution based on flawed strategies or

just really shallow discovery I think

it's worthwhile to understand what makes

our clients tick in order for us to

attract and acquire new customers we

need to understand how they behave how

they think and if we're able to do that

we could better serve them so I think at

this time it would be prudent for us to

do this and I hate to do this to you

because you've really spent money doing

that but I think this is how we need to

move forward what do you think I think

those are those are great points Chris I

know I thought our strategy was okay and

I've had we had a direction moving

forward yeah but because you asked me

about my users and how to attract them

and how to sell to them now that you're

asking me these questions I don't really

know how to speak to them yeah I don't

know how to frame our product so that

it's attractive to them mm-hmm so you

might be right in in in challenging us

in that sense mm-hmm so let's talk about

what that means in terms of your

strategy process yeah you know Matthew a

sidebar here just a quick question what

is that Jim that is really about no

judgment it's a judgment-free zone

I think planet fitness planet fitness

now Planet Fitness is a remarkably

different kind of gym most gyms are

about getting you in shape and promising

you a better body and all these kinds of


in Planet Fitness if you walk into

Planet Fitness they have purple and

yellow workout machines they have all

these kinds of rules that can get you

thrown out of the gym I think it's

called like no lumps or something

is that right Matthews I did gym term

like a like a metal meathead kind of

like super buff guy who's like yelling

and screaming doing the lifts right

right something like something like that

they have some rules right and when you

join their membership you get a pizza

yeah they serve pizza there at the J

star pizza so what they're doing is

somebody strategically had figured this

thing out

while all gyms are the same what do we

need you to stand out there's a lot of

people who are intimidates you go to the

gym so their tagline is no gym timid

ation right no gym timid ation and it's

fantastic so they figured out by

positioning themselves differently by

redoing the brand and communicating this

from top to bottom not the way it looks

but the way we behave as a company they

were able to differentiate and they have

their own kind of rabid followers right

have people who are trying to live

slightly healthier life at least move

their body they're never going to be a

fitness model but that's ok and at the

gym they serve doughnuts right

it's a crazy gym I think Aaron would

really enjoy this gym and what do you

think would you just go to Planet

Fitness if you give me a pizza and a

doughnut I'm gonna feel like I have to

work out now yeah they got something

going in this there's no there's no

intimidation there you can't wear those

muscle shirts you know tank tops I think

that's what they call them you can't be

showing the guns too much yeah you can't

be doing any that kind of stuff because

it's too intimidating it makes people

feel uncomfortable and you know the

funny thing is many gyms have that same

problem these guys just really execute

on because that clarity a purpose of

vision of message and tactics and values

and that's what they're doing so I would

use an example like that to say well

what can strategy do for you so what you

need to have is in your back pocket

maybe two or three stories case studies

about how brands differentiate

themselves and so you're not necessarily

pitching what you're gonna do for them

but you're gonna tell them I'm a student

of this and I can help you I'm gonna

help you ask the right question so we

can get to the right answers and do the

things that are actually gonna get us

results all right I think that's

fantastic Chris cuz I've been in a lot

of sales calls with you and I see you do

this all the time where you're bringing

in stories

to help address their objection or to

onboard them into our process and a lot

of the times it's not even our case

studies right times it's not right you

just tell stories like this like Planet

Fitness we didn't do the positioning or

the branding for that or the messaging

but because you told that story you're

giving a very concrete idea of how one

company could stand out and steal market

share which is very important for most

businesses so by just telling that story

and then concluding with well that's

something that we can help you with

I understand now there's a very firm

concrete example in my head of what

strategy can do for me and my business

yeah okay there's a question here from

Jessica Lynne who's asking what do you

do the client agrees to a price with

zero resistance agrees to pay the

deposit but then doesn't pay it I

followed up and they agreed to get

started but then they don't pay all


Jessica I have a very simple answer to

this question so you got verbal

agreement no resistance everything is

good we have to ask ourselves sometimes

people are possibly embarrassed that

they can't afford you so they smile and

agree so you have to be really good at

picking up these kind of micro

expressions as little bits of resistance

like if their body language changes ever

so slightly you need to be really in

tune with the other person this is what

we're talking about in terms of building

rapport that's why usually when I float

out a price I ask hopefully in a very

open and non-judgmental way how does

that sound does that work for you

I give them every possible way to get

out of this thing is that something that

you can afford if like no you know what

I totally understand okay when we need

to know that so one thing that I learned

from Tony Robbins watching some of his

videos is this is instead of looking at

like why does this always happen any

people ghosting them and getting angry

and feeling bad about it just ask what

else could be happening in this person's

world in life so when they ghost on you

what else is happening so then I get

into deep empathy Mona like well maybe

they're just embarrassed and we've been

there we've accidentally walked into a

store or restaurant or cafe somewhere

I'm like oh this is really pricey and we

casually kind of walk out like we didn't

just run away like that's too much money

for me because we don't want to appear

as if we can't afford things or to be

judged as being cheap

or indecisive all those kinds of things

now we're also allowed to change our

mind how many times you've gotten to a

store to buy something and for whatever

reason that impulse to buy it changed as

you were there you started to talk

yourself out of it or for whatever

reason you weren't feeling right or

maybe you had the clarity of thought

that you just can't really afford these

things and you don't really need it so

human beings are allowed to change their

mind there's no harm no foul because

you've done no work and this is the

price of doing business

you cannot realistically expect

everybody that calls you to want to sign

on the dotted line it's gonna fall

through 100% all the time so we have to

know in order for us to close three jobs

we need to have five prospects and then

do 10 calls and then 100 outbound and

inbound leads that's what it's going to

take in this through this funnel that

eventually those things convert so if

you're expecting a one-to-one

relationship or ratio between some

effort and a result it's not realistic

okay Jessica I hope I answer that

question we probably should move on cool

yeah let's skip okay let's listen I

don't know where we are in the deck now

okay let's see I think we're here all

right so what are the three things that

you need to know so we talked about some

ideas and it was kind of crowdsource in

terms of answers and we voted but I

really kind of step back and because

Matthew asked me to do this show today

to help you guys I'm gonna just sum it

up for you here and here are the three

questions again probably a screen

capture moment you guys number one

question is can they afford me don't

beat around the bush guys talk about the


okay can I do this is this within the

scope and the timeline and expertise I

have to offer so yes I can afford me yes

I can do this we're off to a pretty good

start the next one is going to surprise

you instead of me looking at it from my

point of view I want to know something

so this is my agenda for every call that

I got can they for me do I want to do

this does it work for me the last thing

I want to know is what is the buyer

resistance like what possible objections

or reservations might they have in

working with me and I need to know this

and I'm gonna ask him lots of questions

around this okay so can they afford me

can I

you this and what reservations or

objections do they have working with me

I want you guys to start getting used to

the term objections because these are

sales terms like when court when the

attorney says something and the other

the opposing attorney says objection

your honor

that shows bias

I believe you're usually the person

who's gonna be the defendant Aaron most

likely not the judge okay so we had said

these are going to be five rules five

rules on how to rule your next sales

call five rules here we go

so here here we go all right number one

talk about money early so if you've been

paying attention to anything that we've

been doing about the business and sales

thing you're gonna hear me say this over

and over again talk about money early

get over your fear now actually talking

about money is the professional thing to

do don't beat around the bush so here

are some points right the client you are

both trying to determine if it's a good

fit by answering that question upfront

or getting to that right away then

everybody knows that they should move

forward otherwise you're gonna spend 45

minutes an hour multiple calls only to

realize they can't afford you you you've

wasted your time and probably you've

wasted their time okay by not talking

about money you are failing to answer

the number one question on both of your

mind minds okay be clear be decisive so

we've said this before if somebody asks

you for a logo price and you've never

said this price before okay

read my lips here you think you want to

charge two hundred dollars or two

thousand dollars for twenty thousand

dollars whatever it is the first time

you say it's gonna sound really

uncomfortable for you to say you're

gonna hem and you're gonna hon your well

kind of add in it depends and who you're

losing me right now as a client so I

want you to practice go look in the

mirror it's two thousand dollars it's

twenty thousand dollars it's two hundred

thousand dollars and just don't say

anything else

don't drag it out just say the price as

if it were written like it was a rule if

it was your policy okay if you need to

write for yourself it is our policy to

charge two thousand dollars for a logo

so when they ask you say emphatically

say clearly say with confidence and

don't be

wishy-washy about it okay rule number

two style is more important than

substance when it comes to building

rapport style is more important than


when it comes to building rapport that's

definitely something I lifted straight

up from mr. Tony Robbins okay because

people will remember how you made them


long after they forget your words so the

style in which you say things to tone

the phrasing the the energy that you

bring to it is so many talks fast you

have to talk faster somebody talk slow

you need to talk slow if they have very

specific vocabulary if they lean in you

lean in if they tap their feet you

tapped your feet and you start to sync

up with them okay now a lot of people

that we talk to have kind of one energy

level they're very monotone even when

they're really excited it's like yes I'm

very excited about these kinds of things

what you need to learn is to modulate

your energy and to be able to build

rapport through matching and mirroring I

hope that makes sense you guys because

hopefully you understand like when I'm

talking to you I try to bring a lot of

energy I'm not like this all the time

not having dinner with my kids saying

Pass me the salad please because that

would just be too much but I know for

you guys if you see me I'm like yes

people will remember how you made them

feel long after they forget their words

modulate your energy level and build

rapport you are going to fall asleep

you're gonna say this guy is not

passionate he's a cold robot and he's

just reading things on a screen or

whatever he's gonna do and there's no

passion there there's no energy there's

no charisma there's no spark and I don't

want to work with something like that so

if you're excited let them know man I'm

really excited to be working with you

right now this is incredible I love this

I love this video game that you're

making okay next rule number three show

don't tell show me don't tell all right

now we've heard this before within

design schools people say you got to

educate the client you got to educate

the client so what did we do we

patronize the client by talking them

about the process and they don't care

about that at all

well first I'll pick some Pantone colors

well you know the difference between

CMYK and RGB is this and we got to make

sure the heck's blah blah blah blah

that's not educating them you're talking

about technical things that they don't

care about at all and

actually what you need to know is this

the root word of educate is they do

stand there and that means to draw out

not put in and that's gonna lead me to

my next point

okay the way that you educate is you ask

more questions hmm and you can you can

play this as a game you can measure okay

whoever asked more questions is in

control of the conversation so you can

keep score if they ask the question you

write one if you ask a question you

write one and here's the key is because

people don't want to be a lecture - they

don't want to be told things they want

to decide for themselves and the more

you tell them the more they feel like

you're selling and you're pitching and

you're using high pressure techniques to

make them make a decision and we're most

likely going to say no but you can ask

questions in that Socratic approach like

Socrates why is this important to you

why do you want to do this now why do

you want to work with me is this a big

problem solve you keyed into it and then

they're gonna answer the questions and

you're gonna guide them through the

questions like that shoot that we talked

about the questions of the goalposts the

guidelines on the side to drive them

into making a decision all right and

you've heard me say this before the

quality of the questions that you asked

will determine your value the quality of

the questions you asked will determine

your value okay so what you want to do

is that's directed but open-ended

questions so certain open any questions

like how do you feel today don't help

you at all

how do you feel about your brand in

terms of serving your overall global

business objective is a much better

question you definitely want to stay

away from yes-or-no questions because

they don't tell you a whole lot is your

campaign working yes

what did that tell you nothing okay so

in order of importance generally

speaking why questions are the highest

value how questions are the next value

and then what questions so start with

why there's a book and talk about that

start with why and then end with what


the fifth rule to having an amazing

sales call that's going to be successful

for you and help you guys make more

money close more jobs and basically

click a lot of the stress aways you

to build trust I'm gonna talk about how

to build trust this is one of the big

important ones that the client needs to

feel like they can trust you okay sue in

sales the objective is to provide the

client with information to help them

make the best decision for them not for

you for them your only goal on these

sales calls is to give them information

so they can decide well what kind of

information do you need to give them

well price timeline helping them to

figure out the scope and potentially if

you're a good fit if you're not a good

fit recommend somebody else so what you

need to do is you have to have that

mindset to remain neutral and unbiased

this is very very important okay you

have to take yourself out of the

equation as if you can help them decide

who to work with and you just happen to

be one of many options so what do they

need and how can you be of service to

them if it is even if it is against your

own best interest so Blair and talks

about this this is one way to practice

this is try to kill the engagement three

times try to remove yourself from the

sales process three times within your

first sales call all right all right

what's like a good way to politely kill

an engagement all right let's start Erin

let's rock and roll so what are we

talking about okay are you sure you need

a video of all things

that's one so subtle you wouldn't even

show what happened to you so now what

are you gonna do err and when I say are

you sure you need a video what do you

gonna say to me well I'm kind of shocked

by your question but I feel like I want

a video so I can showcase what I do so I

could just blast it out and everyone can

know what I do and come to my shop is

that important for you for everyone to

know what you do

and is video the most effective way to

do that do you think customers of yours

spend time watching videos I just killed

her four times did she be a graphic

overkill fatality fatality right there

Mortal Kombat heads gone so that's what

you want to do because you see like

every time I do that it shows you I'm


I'm not eager I'm actually trying to

help you figure out what problem is you

really want to solve and I'll use a

little anecdote I'll say sometimes

clients come to me and they ask me to do

video which makes me very happy because

I quite like making videos but it turns

out when we do a little bit deeper

probing and understand who their

customers are very few of them actually

spend any time online watching videos

that may be the most effective form of

communication for them is to get a

handwritten letter accompanied with a

book and a box of cookies delivered to

them and so you just ask questions I

just ask questions right okay that's

interesting because the language of kill

the engagement sounded to me like to say

look I'm not the right guy for this okay

it's really not that it's more you're

just asking deeper questions to make

sure yeah yeah exactly a friend yeah are

you sure man right right you wanting

pizza today you know do you have that

allergic reaction to mozzarella cheese

last time right see that's all I'm not

like hey screw pizzas speeds are stupid

right so it's it's a way to step back

and see if the clients will follow you

so Jonathan Starks talks about this and

we'll be doing another episode on this

to take a deep dive on this why this why

now why me why do you want to work with

me why am I you know Aaron I know you

need to do a video project but as much

as I'd like to take your money I want to

make sure you find the right person so

if you like to do like fashion beauty

work I know people are really good at

that and if you insist that I do I'll do

it but I'm more of a sports and tech

kind of guy that makes me trust you you

see what happens there yes when I Unseld

myself it builds trust and rapport and

you're sitting here thinking this guy's

just really doesn't he just wants what's

best for me that's pretty cool I like

this guy yeah that's what's happening

now this happens also be a sales

technique that people do in a

disingenuous way you know that when you

go to the store and have three products

on the highest priced product it's not

one they actually want you to buy that's

a decoy it's a price decoy right so when

you walk in it's like you're looking at

at laptops right let's say you're buying

a new Power Mac or what does it call

power book right you come man you like

ooh this one's really nice sales /

walks over is like yeah that one is

really nice but hate between you and me

Aaron this one does exactly that - is

10% thing but you're gonna save half the

price before you buy that one tell me

what you need to use it for it because

otherwise I'm gonna tell you you're

gonna save a lot of money I make I don't

even make a sales commission off this I

just don't want to see people waste

their money would I just do to you man I

feel like you're not so much selling me

the thing as you're my friend I'm doing

that report and I'm trying to help you

right and some of this is totally fake

inscripted I'm not telling you to do it

that way I'm telling you do in a real

genuine way so if I know something that

can do a better job than me that's more

cost-effective I recommend them right

away and then I take 10% but aren't you

afraid that you're losing okay

this is a great questionnaire this is a

fantastic question let me ask you this

is right aren't I afraid I'm going to

lose business by referring somebody else

by thinking of the client first well I

want to tell you something I'm gonna ask

you this question

Aaron how can you lose something you did

not have know just like you're so close

to getting that supermodel girlfriend

just like you were so close to getting

that Porsche you can't lose something

you don't have and your life was totally

going along just fine and then all a

sudden ring ring and thing pops up in

your inbox and you talk to them yeah

okay your life was going just fine

without it so this idea of missing

things and losing it's it's fear base

right mm-hmm

it creates an emotion that's not

necessarily going to empower you it

makes you desperate so what we want to

do is ninja flip this whole thing we

don't want to say like oh we're gonna

lose this job why don't we talk about

what we have to gain you might gain a

really great client in the future you

might gain some self respect and

self-confidence in the process you might

gain somebody's trust and you're gonna

give you the project regardless I have

said many times in a room before you've

already paid me to do this part you can

hire anybody else to do all the other

parts and some of them are gonna be a

lot cheaper than me let's figure out the

price and see if you want to work with

us or you can work with whomever you


and more often than not I would say 8090

percent of the time they pick us because

you know why cuz I was really straight

with them and a lot of people value a

relationship they trust more than the

price point I'll give you an example in

simon Sinek stock he talks about what is

the most precious thing that we have in

our life and it's our children okay he

says if you had a choice between two

babysitters to watch out for your child

do you hire the babysitter who's 16

years old who grew up in your

neighborhood who you saw grow up and you

know our parents you know what church

they go to or do you hire the German

nanny whose profession recomended has

all the credentials but you don't know

her his most people choose the teenage

girl who's unqualified probably texting

her friends not paying attention your

kids who don't know how to take care of

the kids but because you think you guys

have shared beliefs and values that

you're going to hire them or more often

than not yes you understand that now

I'll give you another example that will

ring home ring true to you and bring

this home okay if I had to hire a really

super qualified editor cinematographer

to hire the kid who studied finance in

school or do I hire cinematographer

editor who's focused on that and the

reason why I hired you is because I know

you I trust you and I like you and you

could probably say pretty unobjective

Lee there are people are more qualified

more learned than you don't cry under

those sunglasses on me all right that's

why I don't do it yeah don't do I do you

see what I'm saying yeah that's proof is

it not yeah cuz I know you I like you

and I trust you other more qualified

people probably most definitely yes

probably there's a slim chance you never

know those things are kind of not to be

decided on a call like this okay let's

get into some bonus material have some

bonus material for you guys okay here's

the bonus the bonus all right here we go

I actually wrote a letter for you in

case you need help and you could do this

on your sales call okay as the client

begins to talk you might have to

interrupt them

or you might just introduce them and you

know I am I'm all business let's get to

it I don't want to waste time I'm a

professional you're a professional so I

will probably say something like this if

I had to write a script I don't do this

obviously so after all I say don't worry

about the script I wrote you a script

just as a bonus so there we go

you can say hi client may I have

permission to set the tone and intention

for our call today yeah sure

why the find that if we're clear about

expected outcomes it's more likely we

will have a very productive conversation

together on my end I need to know the

scope the budget and the timeline what

do you need to know in order to decide

who you'd like to work with well done

it's gratefully to help you there Aaron

there's no BS anymore there's no more

like oh my god now they know I need to

know the scope the budget and the

timeline yes I have two weeks four

thousand dollars and this isn't what I

need and well you know you come really

high highly recommend I have no qualms

about working with you right now are we

ready to do this to you you're yeah

let's rock and roll

all right guys screen capture all right

if you want to share this make sure you

share it and mention me at V Christo

okay a couple more resources for you and

before we move on to the resources

Matthew is there anything about this

that I wrote that you think needs to be

changed or how does this fit for you I

mean that fits pretty well I would

probably say it in a slightly different

way that feels more comfortable and

using the language that I've used but in

terms of what's actually in there yeah

it's solid you want a free salad yeah

okay put it up put it up put them in

graphic for him and Matthew would just

freestyle his own version of it hey

Chris I know you have so much to talk

about today and you know I don't want to

waste your time so before we get into

anything is it cool if I outline my

agenda for the call because what I need

to know is what is the scope the budget

and the timeline those are the most

important things I need to get before I

get off the call with you today you know

is there anything that you want to add

to the agenda that we could talk about

fantastic good job Matthew so there you

guys go

everybody gets you a justice for how

they want to speak and talk right what's


sorry that's male okay all right all

right so some of Aaron how do you feel

like do you want to try to freestyle

this - Aaron I was thinking

notice Matthew cut out most of the what

he cut out was that first paragraph yes

he did where you said can I set the

first two yes you as soon as you said

that I'm like oh you're gonna set the

tone like alright

I don't know that like that part of what

sounded weird to me the rest of it was

really good yeah so you get to do it any

which way you want before we wrap up the

show okay go ahead ask and I was just

wondering since this one's for you and

Matthew of both because I mean I know

you guys have a ton of experience

dealing with sales calls is there

anything that's like a for sure don't do

this like big-time no knows that you

have seen that oh yes we can trade I

know what we can do good question let's

get into the things you should never do

on a sales call right we'll take turns

Matt you do one I do want and we just go

back and forth okay go ahead Matthew my

number one don't go in desperate because

the clients can smell that so if you

really really want the job if you feel

like it's your job already you're going

in desperate they could smell it on you

and you're going to feel like you have

to justify every single thing that the

client asks you about so don't go in

desperate number one yeah desperation

stinks has a certain stench to it okay

never ever ever cut off the client don't

interrupt them unless you were on the

pro call and I told you how to interrupt

them when you should do that when you

ask a question and they're talking do

not interrupt them because they start to

think my god is this person gonna just

cut me off don't do that it's a good

sign that you're not listening back to

you Matthew

next thing don't assume what they want

or need don't assume what they find

value or what they find value in you

have to have them say it you have to ask

the right questions so I think a lot of

people in the program or even me and

that past where I would assume that oh

you need this logo and you need a brand

identity and you need to know how to use

it for all these things right and they

said none of that they said none of that

so it's not really valuable to them I'm

just shoving it down their throat and

I'm assuming that they want these things

so don't assume what they want or what

they perceive to be valuable

okay I've said this before by Anna Maria

sighs this one do not go past the sale

you will be surprised how many times

you've done it and how many people do it

to you something came into my room

yesterday hey Chris can I borrow them

like yes and they continue to talk about

why they need it I think you know what

if you say one more word I'm gonna say

no and get out my room they go pass the

sale so when a client agrees to the

price the terms you just get out the

phone and get out of the way because

you're only gonna screw it up now the

reason why I think some people go past

the sale is because they're so amped up

on this track and it's like a train and

the train can't stop they prepare

they've written the script they've

rehearsed and then they do this thing

and the clients like yes and you just

keep trying to do it it's like yes I

can't I think I can I think I can I use

keep you know what you just ran right

off that track and we've shared stories

before with mr. Jordan Belfort about how

he talked about going to buy a car and a

person was just trying to sell them I'm

ready to buy the car just give me the

paperwork take my money but they were

just so trained like dogs and they just

couldn't stop themselves

he left mm-hmm Matthew another one don't

go in focusing on your script on what

question to ask next you have to listen

to what the other person is saying

because a lot of people and I've done

this a lot in the past where I would go

in with 10 questions because I read the

RFP or I read some of the documents that

he sent beforehand so I prepared 10

questions to ask them so the problem was

what I would go into these calls and I

would just ask my questions and not even

listen to the response I would let the

clients drive that conversation and the

way you do that is by asking

high-quality questions so if you're

doing this right you are asking maybe

10% of the time of the conversation

that's how much you're speaking the rest

of the 90% you're letting them speak

because they are spilling their hearts

out there telling you what's valuable

what they need from you and you are

getting all the answers there so you

just asking questions and don't focus on

trying to ask than the the the script

right you gotta go in there and ask and

then listen listen listen listen yes yes

yes yes so Peter Butler saying listen

listen listen guess what you have one of

these and you have two of these you

should be doing this twice as much as

this okay

jump in there glad to follow up here so

it kind of sounds like from what you

guys are saying that if you're gonna err

on the side of one or the other it's

better to be a little unprepared than it

is to be overly prepared and have like a

ton of questions ready would you say

that's true you gave me two options I

like neither so I'm gonna practice what

I told you earlier today is I'm gonna

throw with both your options unprepared

says you don't do any work and preparing

for the call over prepared means now

you're just a script monkey and you're

just gonna be a robot right I think what

you need to do is go in there and be

fully present to what's going on you do

need to do a little bit of research to

understand what the heck talking about

so it doesn't feel like you're

unprofessional and as you have more

practice at doing this you can prepare

less and less but the dangers to be in

the extreme here I think you want to be

somewhere in the middle you want to be

somewhat prepared and you want to play

to your strengths but I think you need

to be willing and able to improvise and

listen to what's going on so here's my

next tip don't go in with a set of

questions only to automatically conclude

with something that you began with

meaning do not go in with preconceived

ideas and notions about what the clients

need this is the danger where most

people fall into a trap I learned how to

do logo design therefore I'm gonna talk

about strategy I'm gonna talk about

client pain points and challenges and

guess what you need a new logo well

that's interesting what were all the

questions for you can't help yourself

but to try to sell the things that you

make into champion and things that you

believe in if you can remain neutral and

biased you're gonna do much better for

yourself you're gonna close more clients

you're gonna build rapport and earn

their trust do that what I want to

challenge all 298 of you guys that are

still watching this it's try one or two

of these techniques on your next sales

call and report back to us and call me a

liar tell me it doesn't work and you and

I screwed up an opportunity for you if

anything all I do is screen capture on

my phone messages that come in from

Twitter from Instagram from Facebook

telling me how I've been able to help

people and the few things that they've

been able to apply they've doubled their

income now to make this somewhat

transparent and to tell you if you've

been enjoying this kind of conversation

I would highly encourage you if they

about joining the program I think Matt

and I talked about maybe 10 people will

join from this but you guys definitely

check it out it is an incredible

community of people and this is what we

get to do we get to talk about all the

dirty little secrets and talk about

clients on how to solve these problems

and coach each other and it's the most

affordable way to get me to coach you

because otherwise you pay me a thousand

bucks an hour I will coach you I will

help you solve your problems but not a

lot of people can afford that the next

best option is to join us on the program

I want to say thank you to Caesar in

Venice thank you very much for your

super chat option you said love you guys

from the bottom of my heart you guys

have taught me how to be a better person

hugs from Windy Chicago I added that

Windy part deep-dish pizza it was

invented in Chicago

yes the Chicago dog is my favorite dog I

love deep-dish pizza John Roth

introduced me to that yes that's

fantastic and yeah and I mean the only

reason why we're having this dream today

is because early in the morning me and

Chris we jumped on a protocol he led

that and everybody in the probe all

interior corded there sales call we

dissected those things and then Chris

coached them as a group and then he came

up with this deck all of this stuff that

we're presenting to you guys today just

because we did that in the program and

we do this on the daily we have a weekly

call but there's a Facebook group that

conversations like this are happening

every single day yeah everybody that's

joined the pro group so far has just

found some value some people have left

and that's because they don't need if

they've mastered everything in the group

and that's totally fine and there's I

don't know there's just so much power to

the group and and and I'm super grateful

that I'm part of that thing because I

feel like I learned from other people


oh for sure yeah it's not a closed

learning loop it's an open learning loop

we are BTS TV thank you very much he's

saying ATS user jimenez same here thank

you guys for changing our business every

day it is our sincere pleasure to do

this we want to help empower creatives

all over the world no matter where you

come from I'm gonna read a little

message that ice cream capped on

Instagram I think this is hey Chris hope

you're doing great just want to let you

know that thanks to York a content on

dealing with clients and pricing and

roleplay I managed to gain some leverage

on a recent negotiation it is the first

time I feel I position myself as the ex

BIRT in that I'm in a position of power

while talking to the client I followed

step by step and after two weeks of

waiting the client reached back to me

they really want to work with me now

boom good job and I want out who you are

so I'm not gonna say because it was sent

in private so thank you very much for

sharing those messages with me I get

these all the time

mm-hmm okay Matthew we ready to get out

of here

I think we're ready to get out of I just

wanted to wrap the five things you need

to do on your sales calls number one

talk about price early yes number two

you have to build rapport and Trust

number three show don't tell so you

don't want you don't want to be telling

everybody about your process you want to

be demonstrating how valuable you can be

in future engagements and number four

ask more questions the quality of

questions determines how valuable you

can be and determines basically your

expertise whoever asked more question

wins play that game that's right and

actually number five sorry I mixed

things at number five was build trust

those those two things were connected

there yes all right some books some

books where do I learn this from where

do we get all this information from I'm

going to share with you a few of the

resources I don't know if you guys know

this but on every single episode in the

details the notes we put a link to the

ten books that you must buy and read

sometimes I update it sometimes I don't

but here we go the win without pitching

manifesto it is a game changer written

by Blair ends he's on this list without

coincidence because I've learned so much

from this book and I saw a tweet recent

like somebody said to me I don't know

why I waited so long but I'm already 30

pages in this book and I'm thinking to

myself I could be so far ahead of the

game had I started earlier well you

started now and that's a good thing

highly recommend you guys go out and buy

this book will include the link in the

description below use it because it's

our Amazon affiliate link this one

there's no link for pricing creativity

also by Blair hands is his follow up

book I think he's working on a third

book already fantastic book on how to

price creativity last but not least

hourly billing is nuts our good friend

Jonathan Stark wrote this book it's a

digital download you guys can get it

it's fairly affordable Jonathan's been

on show dropping tremendous value for

our audience okay and the link will be

below so you guys check the link below

boom boom I'll do this so you guys see

that real fast link below and hey before

we say goodbye I want to say thank you

to everybody who

made it this far who's watched it to the

end of the livestream make sure you guys

like comment and subscribe hit that Bell

button if you like what this is and we

will continue to do more content for you

and especially thank you to my entire

team Aaron Jonah Matthew for making me

do this Thank You Matthew and to RSS

staining members thank you so much I

think we're gonna get out of here I'm

gonna cue up Aaron's bootleg track