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all right so shall we talk about um
should we talk about clinginess
i 18m have noticed a pattern in my
relationships with women we would get to
know each other we're texting for hours
we're making jokes we're we're just
having a lovely conversation
then the next day we start texting again
but with a little lesson
engagement and as time goes on
the other person just completely stops
responding even though we had a lot in
common so i tried to flip the script
instead of sending good morning texts i
would just text when i have something
interesting to say instead of giving
compliments i would maybe tease in a
playful way instead of caring about the
other person i literally didn't give
a crap what happens to them and for some
reason that worked every time i texted
them they would reply back pretty much
straight away and they would reciprocate
the same energy i give
so what's the point of having a
relationship if i can't be interested in
the other person for them to be
interested in me
it's a really common experience right
so if you're someone who finds yourself
it's it's a really unfortunate
conclusion or trajectory that this
person is going through which is
i engage with someone i get super
excited we have a wonderful time
and then over time my relationship with
them slowly extinguishes
and so what i have to force myself to
start doing is like stop caring
it's like stop being like authentic like
i'm gonna stop complimenting them i have
to train myself to not care about them
and then what happens when i train
myself
to not care about this person
i actually get like
better responses right
the response that i get is more of what
i want they respond more to my texts
and so what this person what's happening
is this person is sort of like
struggling between what they kind of
consider like being like an authentic
good person
which hurts me and doesn't get me what i
want versus kind of being sort of an
[ __ ] and being less kind which sort
of gets me what i want
right and then this person kind of
struggles and then they're like stuck
between one of two places do i become
clingy or do i become an [ __ ]
and it's really unfortunate when people
find themselves in this situation
because they like tend to wind up doing
one of the two and both of them are
actually toxic
right
we don't want to become clingy but we
also don't want to like you know start
not caring about the people that we want
to form relationships with like that's
not healthy over time but it happens all
the time very very classic
so what's going on here and what do we
do about it
so the key thing to start with as always
like so at you know hg we talk about a
principle that i learned in medicine
which is that good diagnosis precedes
good treatment
so what we want to do is start by
understanding the problem right and
that's not exclusive to medicine
you know if i have if i have flooding in
my house and a plumber comes over they
have to start by understanding okay
where's the leak coming from right
if you go to a mechanic they have to
diagnose the problem before they fix it
so in that same way within yourself you
have to understand what's going on
before you can start to correct that
behavior and ultimately like go to a
kind of healthy place
so little bits of advice
the first thing that i've noticed about
people who get really really clingy
i wasn't gonna do ipad for this but
maybe i should
is that
the first thing they should kind of
scale back on is like the intensity of
the first interaction
so there is a saying
that
you know the brightest flame burns out
the quickest
right
and so in any kind of relationship
like i've just noticed this a lot i mean
i've noticed that kind of clinically
um so this is like a well-described uh
experience of people with like
borderline personality disorder where
they tend to have very very intense
like
rocket fuel level relationships that
then run out of fuel and then collapse
so i'm not saying that everyone in this
situation has borderline personality
disorder but it's just something that
we've seen a lot or i've worked with a
lot
so how to avoid getting clingy let's
start there
and then what we need to do
is first of all recognize that like this
person has two options either they go
the clingy route
or they go the uncaring route
and what they find is that this leads to
extinguishing
interactions
and this leads to increasing
interactions
and what this person wants is increased
interactions because they're looking for
friendship or romantic relationships
right
and so what they sort of end up doing is
learning that oh like what's like you
know maybe i go down this route
the first thing that we want to
understand is like you know what's going
on
inside
right like how do you feel when when
you're texting for hours the first day
you meet someone that sounds a little
bit excessive to me
so it sounds to me like a bright candle
that's going to burn out quickly and
this is just something to understand in
relationships right is generally
speaking like
relationships healthy relationships tend
to form
slowly so if you think about the
interaction for people you know with
healthy relationships it tends to go
like this this is time this is level of
interaction
right if we look at like the formation
of unhealthy relationships oftentimes it
can be like this
right this is time
level of interaction
and so sometimes you can absolutely have
this kind of relationship right where
it's like intense
and it just
you know it builds and it stays high
but i would say that generally speaking
these two curves
this one and this one are way more
common
so the main thing to really understand
is what are you trying to get out of
this relationship
because i think oftentimes what happens
is if you're like complimenting a girl
like are you like that's kind of
interesting right are you
are you like
what are you doing there so generally
speaking you know i don't really
compliment people that i have
relationships with i may appreciate them
from time to time but i don't like open
up with a bunch of compliments
because usually like that that signals
something else are you like so you have
to start by figuring out what is going
on within you so when you're texting
someone for hours like why are you
texting them for hours are you genuinely
enjoying the interaction are you hopeful
that this will turn into something
are you just genuine like are you just
kind of chilling and having a good time
because if you're chilling and having a
good time
then it shouldn't really matter to you
that things kind of fizzle out over time
right like it shouldn't matter because
you're just appreciating the moment and
the moment isn't going to last forever
so if i'm like walking down the street
and i see a beautiful flower and i smell
the flower and i'm like wow that flower
is amazing and then i just move on with
my life so if this is truly what you're
doing
then you should it shouldn't bother you
that the next day they don't text right
because you can just appreciate the
interaction and move on
but chances are you're hopeful or you're
attaching some kind of expectation
and this is the key thing to understand
because when you attach an expectation
oftentimes done subconsciously like
you're kind of lonely you're kind of
interested in this person you do want to
ask them out
and you like and you start complimenting
them
and like you're kind of like gearing up
to ask them out you want them to like
you you're kind of like love bombing
them a little bit right you're trying to
stack the deck in your favor
you're creating an expectation
and if you're not transparent with that
expectation if you're not transparent
with that intention
what it's probably going to lead to is
like some kind of miscommunication over
time because you're not you're you're
saying one like you're doing one thing
you're intending one thing but you're
kind of saying something else you're not
being kind of explicit over it and then
like the person is doesn't understand
what's going on in your head right like
you're not telling them
in fact what you're sort of doing is
like even misleading them in the worst
case scenario and then what happens is
they don't respond the way that you want
to so like this sounds like egregious to
me
sending a good morning text dude i have
never sent a good morning text to anyone
that i don't have some kind of serious
relationship with
like
even close friends of mine like i don't
send them good morning texts like the
only people that i will send good
morning texts to
are people that i have intimate
relationships with
so this this sounds very strange to me
so i don't know if this is the kind of
thing where dr k is a boomer and like
this is normal now but like i don't say
good morning text to my friends
like oh i sent like good morning text to
my girlfriend like i said good morning
text to my wife
i may imagine at some point that i will
send good morning texts to you know
maybe my parents or brother or like
you know kids one day i'm sure i would
want a good morning text from my kids
when they're old enough to text
but this sounds to me to be like quite
intimate
and so this is where i don't know i
don't know what the standard is maybe
that's normal now but like this could be
the kind of thing where like you know
you have one really really like
intensive long lovely conversation and
then you start sending good morning
texts and the person is like wait this
is a level of intimacy that i'm not
comfortable with like yesterday we were
talking about how awesome dune is
and how much we love the you know the
revival of science fiction and fantasy
and the next morning you're like
good morning beautiful
like that seems kind of like romantic in
nature to me and this is where i'd sort
of say like be explicit
if you have an intention so what kind of
expectation you should have like if
you're romantically interested just ask
him out
right just do it
like if you want to ask someone out just
ask them out don't piddle around
and if you're afraid of rejection which
is oftentimes the reason that people
don't ask people out right
like you're afraid they're going to say
no so let me compliment them a lot let
me tell them how awesome i am let me
convince them that i'm worth going out
with and then i will ask them out and
during that time you're like doing all
these weird things like you're sending
flowers and crap like that and it's like
why is this person saying oh you're so
sweet but you're not asking about so
then you kind of get friend-zoned
because you're not like making your
intentions clear and then you ask them
out and then like you've had this
expectation
and then
that expectation gets dashed
right
so i think if you want to ask someone
out just ask them out
next thing is about the clinginess
so what are you getting like what's
going on so this is where i would really
think a little bit about when you have
this awesome kind of this relationship
here
what emotional needs
are being met
because when we think about clinginess
this comes down in essence to emotional
needs
okay
so when i'm clinging with someone like
they're giving me something like why
like like let's you even think about the
word cling
so you know a couple years ago when we
first put our kids into like daycare or
whatever like they cling to us
right children will like cling to their
parents
when they feel
like
unable to be on their own they don't
feel safe
you know you cling to like even if you
think about stray cats like if you feed
a cat and they start following you
around they're kind of clinging to you
right you're meeting some kind of
emotional need
now what tends to happen the reason we
get into clingy relationships is because
people
inadvertently
meet
a high
intense
emotional need
of ours
so this is where like you're texting
this person it's like wow like this is
amazing this is what i've been craving
this entire time and so for you
like let's look at the interaction okay
so let's let's talk about intensity
of interaction
and then here's
you
right so the intensity of interaction is
really high
and then for them like it may be like
here
and then in this
mismatch is like when you start to get
clingy because then when the next day
rolls around
right like you're texting at this level
good morning
compliments
because you're trying to get them to do
what they did yesterday you want that
again you're like oh my god that felt so
good i felt so hurt i connected so much
i didn't feel alone like that was
awesome give it to me again
and so you you open out strong out of
the gate but then they kind of respond
with this
and then what happens over time
is that the more of a mismatch there is
the more the communication is going to
decrease
okay
because it's like a mismatch in
communication it's kind of thing about
you know like friends that you play
games with online like you all are kind
of both on the same page they're like
some people that are like messaging you
every hey you want to play dota hey you
want to play dota hey you want to play
dota if you don't play dota that often
like that mismatch is going to lead them
to start asking other people
and you to like not respond to them
every day
and over time like the people that you
end up interacting with or the people
that are sort of like on your level
and so why is this person getting more
response when he stops caring because
stopping to care
is the way so this is where his
emotional needs are
this is where the person he's engaging
with are and when he stops caring he's
like artificially and arguably toxically
reducing his emotional need right so
when i like numb myself by 50
then we're kind of on the same page
and then like our communication actually
increases over time
because we're both like in the same
place
and so this is the last thing that i'd
say is
first thing is to understand your
emotional needs and then the next thing
is to like recognize like okay what are
this person's emotional needs because if
we look at this
what's absent
from this entirely
is any understanding of the other
person's experience
right it's just about what i think what
i think what i need what i'm expecting
there is a complete lack of
understanding of okay what does this
person want from the relationship what
is this person's experience of the
relationship i'm not saying this to be
harmful or try to you know i recognize
that that makes it sound like this
person is uncaring this person's 18.
like we don't get taught this stuff like
that's the problem right no one sits us
down and says by the way this is how you
form a healthy relationship
it's just like rng depending on what our
parents are what your home life is like
you know whether people should like
teach you this stuff intrinsically or
not i don't blame this person
i think in fact it's awesome that this
person posted this because this problem
is so common but no one ever like
explains this to us and so what we end
up doing is is discovering artificial
toxic ways of not caring about people
that actually match their level of like
engagement
right and then we start to like see
better responses and then what happens
over time is what this person is
thinking is the right way to engage with
people is to stop start being unfeeling
and uncaring towards them
and if we do that we're going to become
toxic over time and that'll ruin our
relationships
but that's going to be the only way that
we learned how to fix it because no one
sort of you know taught us what the
right level of interaction is
so think a little bit about you know
what is the other person's experience
what are they looking for
you can even ask them like you can have
a you know dtr define the relationship
conversation with friends
you know like i actually have those
conversations with people that even i
play games with i'll ask like questions
occasionally i'll be like hey like how
often do you wanna like are you
interested in playing dota or not
interested like a very good friend of
mine like we've been tight dude we were
like roommates way back and like we're
like awesome friends
and i really love playing dota we'll
sometimes play some games together but
they don't seem to be interested in dota
they like watching dota so we like we'll
have a conversation about it i'll be
like hey i've messaged you a couple
times about dota you seem like you're
not interested is this the kind of thing
like you want me to message you or like
not message you or like what
he's like oh yeah it's got a steep
learning curve so i'm not interested
investing that much time but i love
watching it and i love it like you know
i'm down to watch anytime i just don't
want to play and it's like cool now i
understand
so you can kind of define the
relationship you can even with people
that you you kind of meet you know
relatively soon you can sort of
check in with them periodically
you can sort of like read between the
lines some
because like it sounds kind of
aggressive to me to sort of like you
know ask someone hey do you want me to
text you every day the day after you
meet them
do you want me to text you good morning
every single day after after we've met
once this is the kind of thing where you
had a really great conversation i think
it's fine to acknowledge the next day
hey i really enjoyed talking to you
yesterday
you want to hang out sometime
if that's what you want right understand
your emotional needs and make them known
and then give other people the
opportunity
to meet you where you're at or not meet
you where you're at
and over time you may learn some
adjustments like don't ask them that the
next day
right like let leave the ball in their
court sometimes don't always like have
the ball in your court
so like the next day see if they want to
message you
and if they don't message you by like
you know 4 p.m you shoot them a quick
text say hey i really enjoyed our
conversation yesterday
it was awesome hope you're doing well
and then if they don't respond like you
know this is where you go you got to
like learn how often the ball is coming
across the court because this is what
happens when people are clingy you
become a tennis ball machine so normally
when two human beings are playing tennis
i hit the ball over to your side
right and then i wait for them to hit it
back
and then i hit it back this is how
tennis works
now i'm not saying you and some people
will have very very iron-clad rules like
if i text them and they don't respond
i'm never texting them again i don't
think that's healthy either because
sometimes stuff happens maybe the day
that you texted them
their father got diagnosed with covet
right it's like there are all kinds of
reasons so i think it's okay to like
give them a couple days and text them
again
and give them a couple days and text
them again and then if they don't
respond
you can even have a conversation like
this
which is
um so i'll give you all an example of
like someone so sometimes i'll invite
people to things right and they won't
come and you invite them three times and
they don't come then i think it's
appropriate to just ask them a question
be like hey i've invited you a couple of
times it seems like you haven't
uh you haven't come i was just curious
do you want me to continue inviting you
or not
like i understand sometimes people are
busy sometimes people are just like not
that interested just help me understand
do you want me to invite you in the
future yes or no
that i don't think is aggressive and if
they don't respond to that then you're
done
sometimes what happens with clingy
people
is it's a machine gun it's a tennis ball
machine you're just sending text after
text after text after text after text
feels overwhelming the person feels
attacked and then they shut down
right they put up barriers and then they
end up blocking you if you're not
careful
so to summarize
this kind of situation
is very very common
we'll oftentimes meet people and we'll
hit it off
and we enjoy that interaction so much
that like
we start to get hungry for it we attach
certain expectations certain hopes oh my
god this conversation was amazing
i want to have another one i want to
have another one i want to have another
which makes perfect sense right if you
eat some really delicious food you wake
up the next day you're like man let's go
round two like let's go
like when you play like when you start
playing a video game right and you
really enjoy it you binge that game for
eight hours you don't wake up the next
day and not think about it all you're
like let's go let's play again it's
completely normal to have that reaction
and at the same time this is a
relationship where someone else may have
a slightly different perspective you
don't really know so you've got to be
careful you've got to think a little bit
about their perspective
so if you find yourself getting clingy
and they kind of shut you down because
you're kind of over communicating what
can also happen is you can learn
in kind of like a hurtful way to stop
caring about the other person and when
you stop caring about the other person
what can happen is this scenario here
where you artificially reduce your level
of communication to a level they're
comfortable with
and you actually observe rightly so this
is like a kind of an observation that
they respond better to that you're not
actually being an ass to them right
you're just like
making yourself care less so that you
bombard them less
and they're actually comfortable with
that so then they respond more and if
you're not careful what that'll end up
as is you becoming kind of like toxic
over time
with the way that you think about other
people the way that you treat other
people
because it does actually give you the
kind of response that you want
and so what should you do about this
start by understanding yourself right
what needs of mine are being met
like what am i getting out of this why
am i doing this
why do i like this so much
and generally speaking what you also
want to do is think about the other
person like
where are they in this relationship are
they as into me as i'm into them like
you know give them some space give them
some time give them some you know time
to kind of let you know what their needs
are if they are just as into you as you
are into them they'll probably text you
back
over time generally speaking i think
it's important to
scale up your interactions slowly with
other human beings that's how
relationships form right it's like
you know if you meet someone and you
move in with them
because you all are deeply in love a
week later those relationships in my
general understanding are less likely to
succeed
the ones that succeed are the ones that
you're dating for a year or two before
you move in right there's like a natural
progression
acknowledge that and sort of take things
a little bit slower and as you
understand what needs of yours are being
met that'll be easier
and the last thing that you can do is
also just
have a defining the relationship
conversation like when it's appropriate
like you know
a lot of people aren't going to be ready
for that conversation 24 hours after
meeting you like what is this like like
i don't know i just met you yesterday i
have no idea what this is
but at some point it may be useful to
have a little bit of a conversation like
that like hey you know i've invited you
a couple times it seems like you've been
busy i'm just curious do you want me to
continue inviting you
you know simple yes or no you don't have
to provide justification you don't have
to provide reasoning you don't have to
explain your thinking just send a simple
thing their way
be a little bit patient be a little bit
forgiving don't over explain don't share
all your anxieties with them
right hi i have anxiety ha ha i'm afraid
you're abandoning me
and it's like then the person's gonna be
like this is too much for me to handle
just ask them hey what do you want
simple
give them space
and hopefully as you start to understand
what your needs are as you start to be a
little bit more empathic towards them
your relationships will improve
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