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well hello and welcome to this week's
episode where I'm talking about a topic
that I'm super passionate about which is
effective communication this episode is
called stop being defensive and learn to
listen so on the surface this may sound
obvious to you you may understand it and
say of course being defensive can't be
good but here's the reality we all do it
and the question is why do we do it how
can we stop and why is it so damaging to
our relationships so let's start with
what it is when someone comes to you
with an issue and you start to defend
yourself you feel threatened you
immediately want to justify give reasons
why you've done what you've done that is
being defensive now there's all kinds of
levels right there's all different
levels of are you a little bit defensive
which is superhuman or are you extremely
defensive which is really bad for your
relationships because what does it do
it blocks intimacy because defensiveness
as one of my mental health Shiro's would
tell you dr. Harriet Lerner
defensiveness is the arch enemy of
listening so I want you to really think
about that because you can't do those
things simultaneously you can't be being
defensive and be effectively listening
at the same time because it is
impossible so let's talk a little bit
about why there's many reasons why
people are more defensive than others
and so much of it of course has to do
with your where you grew up the home you
grew up and what models of behavior did
you see what happened did you grow up in
a very authoritarian home and if you
made a mistake was it a big deal then
you would be defensive you would be
naturally wanting to defend yourself
because it was dangerous because it was
scary because it was hurtful to you
you know this also breeds codependency
which is a vlog for another time but
there is a reality that if you got into
a lot of trouble if you had a very
strict household it would be very
natural for you to even lie to get out
of trouble right but defensiveness then
becomes this ingrained behavior the
moment someone says we need to talk I'd
like to talk to you about something
where you're already feeling like
constricted inside you can't wait to
defend why you're doing what you're
doing
a personal story quick I learned about
defensiveness years ago many decades ago
actually I should probably say to be
more honest when I was an assistant at a
talent agency and I remember my boss
asked me to do something I did it and he
went on to say hey I don't want you to
do it this way I want you to do it that
way that that's not what I meant
so that's it and I I just launched into
this whole story of why I did it that
way and that the way he said it made me
think no idea I had no idea was being
defensive that's just the way I was and
he said you know Terry I don't care why
you did it the way that you did it right
I just want you to do it the way I'm
telling you to do it and I'm your boss
and that's your job and I gotta say that
this defensiveness is not very
professional and I really don't like it
and I was so of course I mean I was only
20 you know whatever I was so I was like
embarrassed I was humiliated I went to
bathroom I cried like I was also
sensitive whatever but I learned that's
stuck with me for the rest of my adult
life then I started really doing some
research about what is defensiveness and
why to not do it I brought it in to my
therapist and I talked about it with her
and this is when I really started
getting interested in what I call
athletic listening or deep listening and
really was able to make those connect
those dots that dr. Harriet Lerner said
about defensiveness
being the arch enemy of listening I
could suddenly see that there was
something very valuable in that
conversation that my boss had with me
and I thought he was very generous to do
so thank you Scott
the value is learning something oh now I
will be a better assistant because now I
understand how you want something done
and I will do it that way so the proper
response especially in a power dynamic
where the person he was my boss the
proper response was okay thank you for
telling me going forward I'll do it the
way you just requested that that was
actually my job and the proper response
now he wasn't being critical he wasn't
accusing me of something right he was
actually just telling me as my boss how
he wanted me to do something and it was
my job appropriately to say okay great
so let's get into a little bit more
scientifically based evidence as to why
defensiveness is really bad for your
relationship so if we look at John
Gottman dr. John Gottman who many of you
know he is the originator of the love
lab so but for about four decades
probably more he's been doing actual
studies scientific studies on couples
and he became well-known because he was
able to predict within like a 94%
accuracy by spending a short time with
couples who would actually get divorced
and who wouldn't so he talks a bit about
the Four Horsemen to the Apocalypse oh
my god the Four Horsemen of the
Apocalypse I think it is heaven causing
so what are the four things that you
want to really not do in relationships
and what he saw were the things that the
couples who ended up calling the love
disasters instead of the Masters
what were those Four Horsemen of the
Apocalypse so these are patterns of
behavior within the relationship so
criticism
is the first one and we're gonna get to
that right after this defensiveness
because they really do go together
contempt and stonewalling so
stonewalling for those if you don't know
that means being withdrawn in anger
using silence to punish the other person
knowing that you need to have a
conversation but when the person says we
need to talk you're going what what are
you talking about what do we need to
talk about all of those are ways of
stonewalling
so let's since this is actually I'm
actually focusing this episode on
defensive 'no stand listening let's get
the connection between defensiveness and
criticism you can get into the cycle in
a relationship and in fact in any
relation but doesn't have to be a
romantic relationship where the person
you feel attacked the person is coming
at you with a harsh criticism and you're
defensive and then your defensive miss
might make them be more critical and it
becomes this sort of never-ending cycle
of nobody listening everyone's feelings
being hurt and slowly but surely these
are the behaviors that actually scratch
away at the foundation of any
relationship a love relationship in
particular but any relationship when you
think about it right who wants to always
be in this kind of a conflict and that's
what it breeds when we look at defensive
'no sin the way of the childhood stuff
that i said before there may be many
reasons why you are naturally defensive
and afraid to do anything wrong or to
have anyone think you did something
wrong but it's important that you
understand what is your stuff in any
relationship what is your stuff that you
came into sort of like the louis vuitton
baggage that you came into this
experience with we need to be aware of
that because you may be responding to
your partner or to a friend as if they
are this punitive and critical parent
and they may not be being that right so
now i'm going to move into some tips
that i have for you so that you can sort
of clear your relationship of this
criticism defensive
dynamic so let's start with you have to
understand if you have a lot of
resentment right now in your
relationship like past resentment stuff
you really need to get clear so you got
to do an inventory ask yourself some
questions
am i harboring resentment from past
experiences maybe it's things you
haven't talked about maybe it's things
you need to talk about so that's the
first thing and in that I don't have I'm
giving you a downloadable it's like a
little guide so the questions will be on
there for you to actually be able to
answer so that you can sort of clear
your side of the street right the second
thing is I want to make the distinction
it's a super important distinction that
a dialog is not the same as a debate and
I find that in the public sphere online
everywhere it almost feels like there's
no dialogues going on and that debating
which is all about winning so what's the
difference between a dialogue and a
debate a dialogue you are listening with
the intention of understanding a debate
you are listening with the intention of
basically crushing the other person's
theory or what they're saying with a
debate there's a winner and there's a
loser with the dialogue this is a coming
together consciously mindfully wanting a
deeper understanding so there are
questions and I'll put this in your
little guide there are questions that
you can ask if your partner is saying
something to you like I don't like the
way that you know you always come home
from work in a terrible mood and take it
out on me instead of being defensive and
potentially saying well if you did more
I'd be in a better mood or if dinner was
ready when I got here if we were talking
about heteronormative stuff or whatever
like the blame then goes back or if
you're actually looking to have a
dialogue there's got to be a softness
right we can start it with softness and
if the other person starts it you can
bring the softness in
find something you can agree with the
person on and I don't mean lie I mean
think about it and be honest you could
say you know you're right honey I have
been in kind of a bad mood lately and
then you can move into if you have a
simple request that you would like them
to do something differently can I make a
simple request that when I come home the
first 15 or 20 minutes that I just get a
chance to decompress I do want to hear
about your day I do want to talk about
this I don't want to be in a bad mood
but I sort of need to shift hats from
work hat to home hat or whatever it's
gonna be this is a softer way of
responding to the person but you can
only do that if you raise your own
awareness about how defensive you might
be being in the relationship if you have
something you want to say to your
partner start it with softness cert it
with a positive be aware of what your
intention is do you want to be right or
do you want to be understood there's a
very famous saying we've all heard it do
you want to be right or do you want to
be loving because you can't be both
Wayne Dyer has a version Harville
Hendricks has a version there's many
people who are relationship experts who
all agree that it's pretty much
impossible to be super wedded to being
right to winning and to be lovingly
communicating with a partner those two
things you can't do them at the same
time because they're basically polar
opposites right so moving to really
working on getting clear about your own
desire and really trying to get a
dialogue going and keeping that going
and a good relationship hopefully you're
having a dialogue for all of eternity
right or you can get into this
defensiveness criticism thing and you
can do that for all of eternity or until
you get divorced right it's so
exhausting
satisfying and it builds up so much
resentment that it's really bad it's
very toxic for your relationship for
your friendships too though because what
I'm talking about this really does apply
to more than just romantic relationships
it applies to friendships sibling
relationships even parents so I want you
to think about those at the top too so
let's move on to what is the third one
oh this one always struck me as so
profound and so important that if we
have a complaint about something instead
of just saying wow that sucked you suck
that situation sucked that was so wrong
that is past focused like it already
happened and it's okay to say hey I was
really upset about that thing that
happened and I'd like to make a simple
request and now we become future-focused
because that's how we can actually
problem-solve and not just be
complaining or making the other person
rum so you make a simple request which
also requires you to be a part of the
solution in your own life you make a
simple request that they whatever their
simple request is call you if they're
gonna be late not share information you
asked them not to share whatever
whatever your beef is it's like making a
future request because that is where the
possibility of something positive
happening
lives is in the next time so yes we have
to let the person know that we had a
problem with what happened this time
sure that's valuable that's valid it
makes sense but belaboring that really
breeds defensive Ness because it is just
criticism if you're not willing to get
into solution mode it really is just
simply criticism and nothing more than
that and what does that breed defensive
miss and hence there is the cycle so I
didn't give you a lot of strategies
because actually this is very deep work
and I just gave you my
three top ones because honestly in one
video in one episode in one podcast I
feel like that's enough information for
you to work on but let's talk one last
time let me just make one more point
about athletic listening why do we care
why does it matter that you actually
value becoming an athletic listener in
your life because that is the road the
doorway the bridge to intimacy when you
can listen as much or more than you talk
if you can be secure enough to encourage
the people you're talking to expand on
what they're saying if you can encourage
them is there more you want to say about
that what do you think you should do how
do you feel about that without therapy
zhing someone but it is an actual
question and people will tell you the
truth about the way they feel if you are
a soft and open receptacle basically for
their information and if they sense that
it's like an inquisition or that you're
waiting for them to make a mistake you
know the whole thing with the debate and
you know when you're in a conversation
or a conflict with a debater because
they're literally waiting for you to
make a technical error in your data they
can't wait you're saying something super
important and they're like yeah but it
was not last Wednesday it was last
Tuesday hello you're like how does that
change what I'm saying but that's when
you know you're talking to someone who's
really into winning and less interested
in actually coming to a resolution not
interested in building a dialogue so I
am going to do more episodes on really
gaining this skill set of being a
fantastic conversationalist slash
dialogue or slash problem solver because
this is what we need if what we're
really seeking are healthy vibrant
flexible
durable relationships who well that was
it so I hope that you got value out of
this episode and if you did any fewer
friend of the show please share it with
the people in your life I would love
that if you have not already subscribed
to my youtube channel please do because
I'm starting my Terry Cole live Q&A show
on YouTube in April stay tuned for
details but in order to know when it's
gonna be you need to be subscribed so
please do that I want to say as always
thank you so much for being here for
caring about your relationships and your
own mental health for sharing this work
in the world with other people I so
appreciate you and you guys who are on
my channel if you listen to my podcasts
you know I answer all your questions
myself so feel free to drop a question
and let's get this conversation going as
always take care of you
you
