How to start your Aesthetics Business | Aesthetics Mastery

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welcome to SSX mastery I'm dr. Tim

Pierce my name is Miranda fears and this

is the podcast that helps you raise the

bar and thrive in your aesthetics career

we've got a really interesting one for

you today this is we decided to go a

little bit more into the history of how

we've developed our clinic and to help

those of you are trying to do the same

and we're going to go through some of

the trials and tribulations and

successes that have got us to where we

are today and to help you hopefully get

where you want to go a little bit

quicker and Rhonda's going to leave that

for us today so we were doing a webinar

the other night and you were explaining

a bit about your the really early

moments you know when you thought about

getting into aesthetics and and what

went through your mind and then I guess

what's led you here today obviously we

have a successful aesthetics business we

have we're in Manchester and we also

have a training company as well and it's

a case of how the hell do you get from

even considering aesthetics right

through to the end goal so remind me

obviously I was there but remind me like

what what made you what kind of first

piqued your interest in this industry

well it's strange I think there was

something unconscious going on for me

around looking for little avenues to

where I could better express myself so

there's a very high level thing so but

it's around this idea that you know I've

always been slightly entrepreneurial I

wouldn't say extremely entrepreneurial

like you know I tried to sell a few

things on the school playground when I

was a kid I remember thinking I could I

got a discount on computer games and

through my bank and I thought maybe I

could sell them at the normal price at

school that really didn't work but at

the same time you know I had that

inkling and it was about for me there's

an element of Independence and and a

kind of a kind of daydreaming of I

wonder if I could have my own business

in some way and then basically

aesthetics landed in front of me and I

thought and after doing some maths which

we'll get to I thought I should

definitely do this there were various

things that appealed to me I was really

and it's it's that element of private

practice I think I always I always

wanted to do something that would be

just my own and I think that resonates

with a lot of people say something like

that it's that that little corner of the

world that you're in control of that you

don't have you know five managers and a

boss and and all those kind of things

going on that you can influence and grow

in your own style so I think that was

part of it and what kind of you'd

already heard about it but what was the

moment that actually made you act and

book your first course well it was a

story from our friend Beatrice who will

always be grateful to who came around

for dinner one night and she just

dropped in I think she said something

slightly mysterious for bit for Beatrice

that I wasn't used to because we'd lived

with her for years and you really well

and she just said something like I have

other sources of income now like

interesting Beatrice you must tell me

more about this and then she basically

told me about her she a fledgling

ascetics business that she started doing

you know three or four places that she

worked out hadn't been doing it long but

she'd had some success and she basically

break down broke down the rudimentary

zuv the business model and that was the

bit for me that was the Eureka moment

was okay so essentially the mathematics

and it cost this much it retails for

this much the in-between bit is the

opportunity but that's available and she

also told me her route to market which

is a technical way of how do you

actually get customers and so that was

all the information I needed to think to

have enough certainty to go off and

investigate it because before then it

was like I'd heard of people doing it

but I was I didn't know how like how do

you assemble these components to make a

business and hearing her story which is

really simple you get the Botox from a

pharmacy you pay 145 pounds for it

and it retails for about 300 and the

rest is yours to keep if you can get a

client so that moment was like well that

sounds like a good business model I can

do that I'm already doing injections and

I can handle patients I should try and

do that and I got within about 24 hours

really excited about investigating doing

it and then I started googling and

finding out more about it yeah

and did you have any worry in that first

flush or were you just dead excited

well there's all sorts of things that

come into your mind about this industry

there are lots of stereotypes for

example so I did think that maybe

everyone I treated would be you know

either a celebrity or have body

dysmorphia you know there's that kind of

everyone's going to be incredibly vain

and superficial kind of fear and that's

not really me but you know maybe they'll

be like that there's the other kind of

fear that you maybe mix in with it's

kind of like an American story or

getting sued which is that you know

you're you're a cosmetic surgeons are

always getting sued and you just imagine

that it's a it's a scary place to go and

you're going to be sued every week and

so don't think there are things like

that that popped into my mind so that

the other thing is you're gonna be by

yourself yeah that was a big element of

it's great in the NHS in many ways

because you you share the risk as a

junior doctor especially where I'm in

most teams most of the people are

sharing the risk but there's suddenly

this point where you're like you're

stepping out on your own where the buck

stops with you basically that was a

different feeling but I didn't I don't

have to say I didn't really think about

that that much at the beginning I just

thought many of the opportunity and that

I believed I could do it and I started

to move towards it that was more after

your first training day yeah and this

was in 2007 that you first heard about

the idea wasn't it and then you did the

training 2008 February 2008 yeah yeah it

took me a while to find a course that in

fact that I went up to Scotland so a big

trip and ages somewhere from where I

actually lived and but it had the right

balance of things I was looking for

looking back was really expensive what I

got and but you know I got started I

can't complain okay and what was it

about the NHS that cuz you ultimately if

you were a hundred percent happy with

your current job you wouldn't have your

eyes wouldn't have gone elsewhere you

know you wouldn't have played away as it

was so what was it about the NHS that

pushed you well it was always my dream

dog job to be a doctor so it was quite a

shock basically getting then realising

how different it was to be it was going

to be to how I imagined and particularly

in the hospital and this is something I

feel really sad about doing a lot of

very idealistic people go into the NHS

and you know it sounds cheesy but you

want to save lives you want to make

difference and there are definitely

moments where I felt I was doing that

and but there was an awful lot of other

stuff that was getting in the way that

ended up making you feel and a lot of

people resonate with this is you end up

in survival mode quite a lot what I mean

by survival mode is you're trying not to

drop the ball and allow someone to come

to harm on your watch versus trying to

actually weighed in on the front foot

and make a big difference to people so

it's you know it's that it's the classic

case of you know you're an hour late and

you know a patient comes into a me with

something that's very concerning for

them but it's definitely not

life-threatening and you basically have

to be so super quick for that for that

because and get them out of the

department because you've got more much

more important things to do and that

sense is okay and it sounds almost

sensible to say that way but it's but

it's quite grinding as well it's quite

relentless and then essentially the

whole team in that in that frame of mind

what I noticed as a junior doctor is the

whole team gets stressed and they start

to snap at each other and and that was a

big surprise to me that for a large

parts of the day may have just been my

hospital but there was a lot of

negativity between the staff which only

comes from fear and stress you know

these are good people who had good

intentions like everyone else but and

I'm this was a real story once I

remember my consultant coming in a

patient about to breach snapping at me

for the patient about to breach and I

and I was immediately transferred that

to the person who was owing me a urine

dip test that I was waiting for no that

was the one thing I was waiting for

discharging she was obviously busy with

seven other things but with this this

chain of stress kind of went round from

me to her and I basically don't fall out

with people in life in general I'm

pretty good at and had maintaining

relationships but that that was a real

low point because it was someone else I

liked and was friends with but we

basically fell out over stress and the

reason that happened was because it's a

stretch it's a stretched system and but

it it was happening all over the place

once you can look around like people are

clashing and it's because of lack of

resources and an inability to actually

do anything other than just survive and

certainly that was a big part of it for

me I didn't really I didn't think I

could express my myself fully through

the NHS

would be quite a basically quite

difficult place to spend my whole life

so did you imagine that you would do you

ever think are going to ascetics

full-time or did you just think you do

on the side it wouldn't be your future

and well I didn't I saw the same reason

I always wanted to be a doctor I still

haven't gone into aesthetics full-time

and still do one day a week but um it

certainly be it's become much it's I do

have have very different reasons how I

used to I don't need the NHS for

certainty in my life I do it because I

like to connect with that side of things

so it's it's a wonderful luxury to have

that choice um I knew I knew right from

the beginning that I wanted it a big

part because it's it's just so much more

enjoyable so whatever I did on the other

side it's almost about having those

aspects where you can put the rest of

your personality into play not under

someone else's you know stretched agenda

you get to decide how you shape things

and do things so as long as that was

going I could probably tolerate a

stressful day once a week and and still

feel like I'm getting a reasonable

balance okay so once you've done your


what was that kind of because I think

some people listen to this especially

those who haven't got into aesthetics

yeah it's sometimes overwhelming to

think like what that held right was the

first thing I do like what do i what

move do I make in the world to make this

thing real what did you do

so I mean the first thing we I struggled

with there just getting all the kids

together so I remember that being the

first obstacle was I can't I don't

really want to start advertising

anything if I haven't if I'm not

prepared to do the treatment and that

and it's down to the training come now

Wentworth who were no longer with us and

but they and that there was I was

basically just had the theoretical

training and and I didn't even know

where to order stuff from so that's the

first thing I don't when we started

training I made sure was a really good

answer for the tip for that so we have

our starter pack and other things but

that was a significant barrier and the

longer I felt unequipped to treat almost

like that your confidence does to fade

so the first thing is getting all those

stuff ready and the next thing actually

kind of before then I had the idea of

what I wouldn't have called it this in

those days but what's your route to

market how are you gonna get customer

and I just copied Beatrice basically she

had she had had five salons I like right

great I'll just go and try and find a

salon that will have me which was very

nerve-racking for me because I never

walked into a salon before they're like

a different universe and we've been to

so many hundreds now that you know I

feel like that's completely gone but in

those days it was an awkward thing for

me to walk into Sun on and say can I do

treatments here so but that was the

first thing I knew that my route to

market was gonna be someone's and and

yeah that and I went off and will you

help me a lot and we started getting a

couple of salons but how did you get

your first clients it's one thing to get

a supplier as it were which yeah was we

you know we did when we did that well

but how do you yeah how do you actually

get a human being to come out there face

rejected by you so it wasn't that

sophisticated we I made some leaflets

and posters which Looking Backward I

mean they're so cringe-worthy to look at

when you look back I think keep it they

worked yeah so there's a lesson in that

I know a lot of people someone on social

media you think this is good enough and

you hold yourself back and you look back

and you probably will one day think oh

that's appalling and do so much better

but they bloody worked so I put some

posters up some awful computer-generated

images of a face labeling with different

areas and just my name and the price

list and lo and behold someone phoned

spike I had like to do that thing that

you said you can do a new leaflet you

know and you're trying to act natural

and like oh yeah no no worries but on

the inside you like I'm actually gonna

I'm actually going to do it so that's

what I did a lot of other people like to

go down the friends the social network

which is you know it has its downsides

I personally was more afraid of treating

my friends and family that are treating

public for some reason I I don't know

why I just always thought you know I'd

rather do it from the start as a proper

business rather than do the friends and

family room it just felt more

straightforward to me I think as well

like we don't necessarily live all

around like too many of our of our

family so I think it's like a different

way of looking at things but and I also

I also wanted to keep it separate from

my NHS work that wasn't that was part of

it tell me more well

and I think it was right in retrospect

and it just adds a question mark to

people generally about your motivations

and in the early days I didn't have any

big plans I you know I didn't think I'd

do anything until after my all my

training which is kind of what happened

actually didn't really do didn't really

go hard on it until after that and but

the better but I didn't want I didn't

want another story starting up about me

and actually I did actually

this is I was right because at one point

when I just created my first website I

was so proud of it I added on the bottom

my email header and that went to I just

emailed as you do people at work and a

little rumor started up on my first GP

job that I was a bit slow with my

paperwork and it was probably because

hallelujah the rumor wasn't that I was

slow the rumor was that I was building

my business and actually at that point I

was seeing one client a month and

actually not doing anything on it like

it was there was nothing but I was doing

the paperwork wrong so instead of just

highlighting what needed to be coded I

was actually coding everything myself

which I didn't know someone else was

meant to do but the length of time it

took me and the combination of the email

addresses that someone there started

this idea that it was because I was I

was constantly somehow building my

business while I was in my lunch break

and and that was really sad because it

went around everyone and no one told me

until one of the doctors came around and

said look there's all these rumors going

around I think it's wrong that no one

else said any things I'm gonna say

something to you know I'll always

appreciate that doctor and then I was

like this mind-blowing moment as like

what you mean I don't have to actually

enter all these codes myself I thought

that's what I had to do and and we all

laughed but yeah but but the thing is

it's that thing of like where whereas

whereas your energy going I think it's

true with human relationships all across

the board you know if you know it's it's

the same with your partner like if

they're really interested in something

that's outside of the family and we've

had this discussion before sometimes

that's like you can create a sense of

uncertainty so that's what happens with

your colleagues and if you but having

said that there are plenty who are

making who basically build their

businesses through their network on the

NHS so it depends on your personality

now you play these things and what your

friendship what your colleagues are like

but many of them are driving their

businesses for them so I'm not saying as

100% right but

I had one bad experience with him yeah I

think that in regards to that people all

the people that I speak to most of them

do worry about delegates who come to us

or you know people who were in ascetics

do you worry about the interaction with

their NHS colleagues but I kind of feel

like you can't hide it like it's gonna

come out and so you need to sort of

almost have a word with yourself and

decide how you want that to go and an

almost really challenge it in your own

mind yes people are going to be jealous

yes people are going to think you know

some people will think you're you know

you put you've changed or whatever but

you you really can't let that stop you

you just can't if you are falling in

love with ascetics as you did then you

know you just have to wear out I find a

way around well it's a timing thing it's

a timing thing though because I knew I

wasn't gonna leave until I finished all

my GP training yeah so I didn't I didn't

but at the time that was still my

priority yeah so if you're not at that

stage and you're thinking if I can get

out of this in three months I'd do it

then you should go all-in like I do

think you should go all-in and you some

people will we've discussed this lot and

the mindset group some people will and

not like you for it because it feels

like you're leaving them behind yeah but

that's the price you pay for progress

sometimes but most people all they have

to do HR wise with the NHS job is just

email their manager and say I am now

doing this it doesn't conflict with my

work and just leave it at that and it

shouldn't come back with your work

because you obviously are not doing

cosmetic treatments in the NHS so yeah

that's that's that's private and then

the rest is mindset so so you've

obviously you've got going you doing you

doing the sprinkling of clients did you

ever think of you know did you ever

think God is this really worth it

you know do shall I just go back to the

NHS and well I think if you build a

business there are various stages that

you go through which never stop actually

where you you're going well on your

growing and then you hit an obstacle and

then you either overcome that obstacle

or it or you get stuck and you want to

give up and obviously the longer you're

stuck the more it feels like and this is

me giving up time but if you overcome it

you normally go through another another

phase of growth in fact that is

actually it's like you you hit a

limiting factor you conquer that

limiting factor you grow again and then

here's another limiting factor and that

repeats indefinitely it's happening to

Apple computers and it's happening to

that your first you know your from your

first client to having a hundred clients

you're hitting these obstacles along the

way so yes there were many of those I

think probably the first one that the

the easiest one to kind of miss is the

petering out one like you get one sound

you get one client you get excited

nothing else happens after that maybe

maybe you got one more and then then it

dies like that's that's a possibility

so I think there was a stage at the

beginning where there were quite long

gaps between clients and it could have

gone either way I did remember thinking

this could just end up not I could just

not get another client or lose interest

in it not really want to drive it so

that's probably the first limiting

factor is how do you how do you actually

get enough clients so that you believe

this is really gonna work and and that's

about not being I think we ended up

getting quite a few more salons quite

quickly so we had one we've got some

success from that and then we then we

tried to get five and then and that was

that was one one way to do it and then

obviously there's lots of marketing

things that you could do as well as yeah

our particular was this was back in 2008

where I remember people saying our

Facebook's no good for advertising wish

I wish I could go back in time and know

what I know now but um the so there's

the there's that element of route to

market getting started not petering out

but then the next thing is you you reach

a limit you reach other limits

clinically as well so there was a point

which I've gone into in depth of my my

webinar which I'm sure will do again

some point and where complications

became an anxiety it actually looking

back I actually didn't have a

complication I just had normal side

effects that I just wasn't fully

equipped to treat so would create

anxiety of me you know and you still

have I remember having anxiety over did

I suddenly wake him 3:00 in the morning

I'm thinking did I inject four units

instead of do units you never had you

never had you yeah in those days you

don't have the you don't have the

experience to know that I mean basically

all of them were fine because there was

a point where I was store

you weren't worried anymore because

you're like you always say this and it's

always fine so I bet your every time you

stray into new territory and and the new

territory might be a centimeter

difference in the face where you're

injecting there's an element of

uncertainty and if you can overcome that

and start to basically develop a more

comprehensive understanding of how it

all ties together and how clients are

likely to react then that that's a also

a big stepping stepping stone you have

to go through experience the biggest

variable is the person treating and the

things they say to you it's very hard to

teach I just did some training this this

weekend and with someone else we're

learning about a new procedure and the

thing I realized I was getting most from

was the practical tips the things

clients say and there's a lot of that

stuff that you have that's very hard to

teach because people are all different

but there are patterns that you

formulate and so learning that you can

stopping being anxious every time the

phone rings for a follow-up or or a text

message and that's a big part of it

because once you're free of that you can

get on with building a business instead

of having the the kind of nagging

uncertainty so that's all about your

clinical skills particularly

complications and side effects and

follow-ups so you mentioned at the

beginning that you the thing that led

you to aesthetics was this dream of

potentially having more control over

your life financially but also that you

wouldn't have a you know some boss kind

of bearing down on you and and you

wouldn't have to have that negativity

that you were experiencing in the NHS

did you I'm curious like when did you

start to fall in love with ascetics of

things yes this is going to provide me

with that like what was the moment that

got you thinking yes this you know I'm

not hundred cent sure but this could be

it and it was it was basically when we

started do the financial planning I

think when I could solace see see the

route ahead now I often used the analogy

of the shed that I built as a as a as a

way of describing human motivation and

how there was a point where before we

had the shed I wanted one and I could

see what it'd be like to have one it's

no ordinary shared it's like basically

another house like it's it's pretty big

and I had this vision of how cool would

be to have a creative space and to have

the kids able to paint in there and

stuff and be able to make things and may

do videos or ever but know how to get

there so don't really have a lot of

motivation it was just an idea

and then I got a guy run to come and

quote and as so often happens with these

things he just never got back to me and

that was a dead end and so so right I

didn't have that much I still wanted it

but I wasn't ready to go and take

massive action on it until I started I

thought let me just Google what it's

like to make a shed and I just googled

there's like so many great videos that

literally visually it's very important

for me I can see the struts going up I

could see the nail-gun

having it was like I can buy a nail gun

I can put the struts up and suddenly I

went from being vaguely kind of wood

into a shed with just believing I could

have it so clearly that I just had to

assemble the pieces and that's that

happens with your business too when you

do good planning so if you can see all

the bits and pieces all linked together

and it's given you the thing that you

really want suddenly you just think well

the only thing standing in the way is

for me to actually do it and so the

planning was a really important part of

getting motivated so the financial

planning like how many clients would it

take to hire someone to have a clinic

how many clients do I need before I can

step back from the NHS that was huge I

really recommend you do it you work out

your average treatment value how much

profit you're making from each client

how much you need to reinvest how much

you need to live on and how many clients

you'll need to see a week how much how

do you get a client how many how many

how can you replicate that so that you

can do more each week etc until you can

just go for it

so then your certainty goes through the

roof and you act so your certainty went

through the roof but well about your

when did your heart engage like when you

were you've been doing aesthetics for a

while so you'd already done your

calculations you got your certainty this

was gonna you know be worth it when did

you kind of think oh yeah this is cool

well I mean I was always I always had an

element of this as cool as I wouldn't

have carried on um I remember one of my

first Thaksin clients just just being so

happy and and I was amazed as well

because you know view it you know you

don't you don't always see amazing

before-and-afters so quickly but she

came back like two weeks later just to

say thank you and to show me her face I

need to follow up and loves Amsler this

age of like oh it's alright no business

and all she could do is say she's still

a kind I think

and say how wonderful it was and you

know I connected with her and I liked

her as a person and then she was living

this better life and was like that's

really cool I can achieve that and she

also said she also said a few things

which I've not heard before like you're

clearly really good at what you do and

that there was a definitely stage where

I was getting feedback from the market

that at that stage I didn't believe that

yet I thought was just like anyone else

and then they'd come and say oh wait you

know the thing you do here is really

different or I've had it before and it

really hurt and all these things start

coming back and you're thinking maybe

I'm actually quite good at this and then

you see the impact and then certainly

once the bigger treatment started to

come in now now it's my favourites I'd

love nothing better than to have three

hours and and twelve Mills to play with

and you know a nice client who's gonna

make a good psychological difference to

them then I'm really happy to put some

music on transform someone's face and

it's the best I still would love to do

that any day of the week so I really got

into the practical side of it but that

that was more that was a slow-burning I

think because certainly when I first

started it was quite basic like there

wasn't there wasn't a lot of the more

clever stuff we can do now yeah but

basically what you felt was job

satisfaction it was like you do a thing

someone comes back and says wow that

thing you did was amazing yeah

absolutely and then that and trusting

yourself you know I had this I started

to develop the sense that I can I can

actually reliably predict that I'm gonna

achieve this result like that that does

that is something that this is not a

roller coaster Arius yeah that creeps up

on you with experience yeah

and that doesn't matter how you do your

training there's an element of proving

it to yourself and and doing it by

yourself is really a driving test you

know you can be safe but there's a whole

other thing just enjoying driving you

know that's what happens over time so if

you could kind of look back and let's

say that you were talking to your

younger self from eleven years ago what

would you tell that's him to do

differently and building this business I

think right back I think I could have

been you you could be demanding more

demanding of building the kind of

business that you want rather than what

you think you have to do to

so there's you know we certainly changed

direction as well let me know I don't

think would have gone down the salon

route because it does a lot of traveling

between different places and you can't

even control the environment if I just

thought that's what you had to do I was

copying basically copying Beatrice and

it worked really well and it's not but I

might do it slightly differently I might

have focused it more in one area and

done more kind of web and social I

certainly would these days but it's the

biggest it doesn't really matter what

tactics because some people the

someone's still a great way of getting

clients is not not pooh-poohing it it's

just there I think you can now I believe

I could probably have actually asked

myself a more important question than

what do I need to do to build an

aesthetics business it would be what do

I actually want to build and then being

staying true to that and asking yourself

questions that that enable you to build

the thing that you want rather than the

other way around oh my god I feel so

sorry about that for example to make it

real this one practitioner I'm thinking

of who she is so she in her NHS was it

like a district nurse she goes out to

people's houses and dresses wounds and

she loves the act of physically caring

for someone and so an important I think

I don't know whether she ever sort of

thought about this beforehand but a

really beautiful thing about her

business and I think one of the reasons

it's thriving is because she has a home

salon basically that's attached to her

house which then feels intimates it

feels you know super relaxing and she's

in control of it and so as a result and

she loves all the skin quality

treatments I mean she does that you know

she doesn't Botox and fillers as well

but she loves as well but she is able to

do the thing that I think she's

basically been called to do it's like to

care for someone physically and give

them that so it's more experience so if

I don't know whether she didn't do what

you've just suggested but she is just

naturally crafted her business to fit

her personality and what she loves yeah

well this is something that I realized

about our business when I started to get

the feedback from what happens in other

businesses is I realized that's a lot of

a lot of the things that was getting

good feedback were

things I was expressing that are my

values and my my way of operating in

life that and some people get into

business I think business is now a

separate thing yeah and they don't

realize that actually a business is a

vehicle for you to express the best of

yourself to the world and that usually

is what people are looking for anyway in

the market and we've got lots of

examples of these you know people who

thought I'm too old to get as into

aesthetics or I'm too young to get into

aesthetics or whatever but that actually

when they when they can forget thinking

about the fact that they don't fit the

carb or cut out their imagining and just

be themselves and put that out to the

world that there are enough people who

can see that true benefit that you're

delivering and that you can build a

business at any age I mean and that you

will resonate with that those specific

people so your vibe attracts your tribe

so if you are maybe in your 50s and you

think yourself oh god you know I'm not

achieving this kind of perfectly perfect

- you know maybe I do have a paper towel

or whatever that's what you think but

actually you're going to attract people

who love the fact that you are sort of

an image of them and that they then

maybe you'll be more to be more discreet

unless and maybe less pushy or you know

whatever they're worrying about the

clients you'll understand their problems

you've got the same the same issues and

they won't be judged by you hundred

percent and they whatever your fears are

if I'm not that cardboard cutout there

are millions of clients who aren't that

cardboard that's out either yeah so you

know maybe if you're 27 and gorgeous and

glamorous that you're gonna attract

those kinds of clients because they're

looking for that but if you're 58 well

there's plenty of 58 year olds who also

don't want to be intimidated by the 27

year old yeah and once someone who's had

lived a bit and you know has had

whatever kids or whatever and you can

talk about those same issues because you

can't you can't connect with people who

are too different to you so you can

build a business around your own

personality sure those are the best

businesses because they're unique

they're not everyone can spot a

cardboard cutout exactly that's what

it's basically just about to say which

is that if you're going to choose a non

cardboard cutout business model which is

that you know for example in this case I

was telling you about before so she's

chosen that kind of business but she's

communicating that as well so she

communicates love and care very much

very important part of her

and and she will do that when I say

communicate I mean in the appointment

because of course a big part of brand

building is about actually living living

your truth basically and and having

amazing customer service or whatever

your vibe is and also in her

communications as in externally so her

marketing her Facebook posts you know

website blogs or whatever it is she does

it comes like that comes across you can

for example be 58 and be like right I'm

gonna attract lots of 58 year-olds and

then try and be you know a 35 year old

sassy meme creator or whatever it is

you've got to let you've got to be that

and that communicate that every day yeah


oh I think the word brand sometimes

makes people think they've got to create

something from scratch that's separate

to them but really your brand is just

the way that you communicate specific

values that you share in a visual format

yeah but if they're not true then that

you smoke around anyway it's just a logo

there's a big difference with a logo and

a brand brand is something you earn over

a long period of time yeah it's what you

do as well as what you say you're gonna


so just dipping back again into the

practical I remember you saying back in

the day oh god you know I'm bit worried

I'm gonna get sued like you said earlier

you worried it would be a bit American

litigious kind of this world have you

found it to be well touchwood and you

always have to because you know when

you're putting a through port of a lot

of people through your business it's I'm

just gonna say it's gonna happen one day

but so far it hasn't and I think I know

one of the reasons for that well I know

I think I know several and the first

thing is very few people actually can be

bothered that they're not looking to sue

I mean you do get those people who you

know know the system you know the same

people who throw themselves in front of

cars or cause you know break in front of

lorries to get but they're very few of

them most most people come to your

clinic because they want a good service

and if they get that good service mainly

that they feel cared for yeah then they

don't want to hurt you so the number one

way to avoid getting sued is is to

really care about your patients ahead of

your defensive nasai think a lot of

people get sued when they're defensive

and back to have it one of my patients

had a great story that always stuck in

my mind which is she tripped and fell in

a shop bashed

head and cuts it quite badly left a

handbag there in the in the melee of

what happened and then came back to get

a handbag and at that point this

shopkeeper was very rude to answer and

basically threw out of it other fish out

of a shop and didn't want him he

basically accused her of doing on

purpose or something like that and at

that point she wasn't interested in

suing him but she was so outraged that

his at his reaction to her returning

just to get her handbag that she was

like well now I feel really grieved like

there's something is that there's a

there's like a moral injury on top of

the physical injury now and now I'm

angry and she went ahead and sued him

and and won but that really struck me as

a Yacky if he'd given her some love and

attention she would have felt better so

much so much better that she may not

have actually sued but it all became

part of this and this even the scar she

had was part of this this you know

spiritual wound almost of like how bad

mankind is that you'd be treated that

way so she went out to go and correct it

through the legal process

so there's definitely something I think

a lot of people end up in trouble

because they get defensive and they

think oh my god I'm gonna get sued I

need to like start being official and

quoting the consent form and the worst

ones a hero

I've heard of patients ringing for help

and then having the consent form quoted

back on them on the phone well it says

on chapter you know line three that you

might get cold sores I mean while the

patient's like what do I do about my

cold sores and and that makes you angry

b/c like these people don't care about

me and then if someone doesn't care

about you and you're injured well you

need to basically you get aggressive

that's just a human behavior so that

though I think one of the reasons why I

personally have not gone down their ruse

I'd go the extra mile for people who are

in a state of uncertainty like I really

do chase down everything I'm gonna see

someone next week I'll probably talk to

you for an hour and a half over all

sorts of tiny which would might seem

really tiny to other people know why

these the issues but I want I'm looking

to seal off every avenue of uncertainty

that she's got and you know people are

complex but if I can do all of that and

do it with love like as opposed to

judgmental like okay whatever going to

say love is empathy yeah I want I want

you her to know that I care

not feeling uncertain and I will chase

down every element of that she she's

much more likely to even if I can't do

anything for the particular issue

she's vastly more likely to think more

fair enough he's done everything he

could I all my questions are answered

I know I know the lay of the land and he

gave me an hour of his time and that

kind of process and it's just so so

valuable to protecting your relationship

and your reputation which is not why I

do it it's more for the individual and

preventing yourself getting into that

but it's basically what you're a good

NHS practitioner would do anyway and I

think people think that they have to be

someone new when they go into business

they're like oh now I'm in business I've

got some a business briefcase and and

business attitude and a business minded

then all business is is the exchange of

family between two people in this case

always kind of cocooned in the

relationship was always a relationship

there and with any relationship you need

love and boundaries and the boundaries

are yes obviously you can't keep giving

freebies away for 50 million times just

because someone is slightly disgruntled

there is a line but if you can do that

with can compassion and you can show

them that you hear them honestly that's

that that's the crucial thing people

just want to be heard

absolutely but also as you're talking I

was thinking basically my GP training

which at the time a lot of GPS resented

because they've got time to do in ten

minutes to do all the things you feel

like you haven't got time but it was the

best investment ever

you know because essentially it's

incredible sales training but ethical

sales situation you don't look at the GP

training communication skills but if you

think about this is what all I only said

that because all health care

professionals have to do an element of

this you take a patient in front of you

with a need

you've particularly GP because it's it's

less like I have a gaping wound on my

leg you know then it's clear the sales

process is easy would you like me to

stitch up the wound and your leg you

know there's not was not a complex sales

process but when the need is more

higher-level like I have you know I feel

on the back foot in social situations

because he used to be the belle of the

ball and now I'm 38 you know that's more

complex you've got to really connect

with people on a different level but

it's the same thing

identify the problem

produce some potential solution make

sure that person knows that they you

identify with them then you feel

connected okay I understand your problem

there's a GP skill and what's made you

come today all these things that trigger

the real story it's actually a lot of

the stuff that in GP we don't want to

hear because I'm going to time so we

want to know what you're trained to do

it but when you but you basically you

want to solve the biological problem or

the pathological problem so I've got a

sore throat becomes well do you need

antibiotics or not but the real reason

someone's there is because they have a

recital coming up and they can't sing or

they've got a presentation or they have

a fear that its throat cancer and as

soon as you get the real story your

solution is so much more powerful and

it's basically what all healthcare

professionals should do all the time and

you can bring this to you with

aesthetics you're just meeting a human

being with a problem you need to

identify the problem gain trust with

that person by talking about the problem

making sure that you understand them and

then offer them some solutions and be

true to your solutions they have to do

what you say and then you maintain trust

you build a relationship you build a

practice so when you got to the point of

just to be clear you do a half session a

half a day session of NHS you do that

not because you have to because actually

all you've got waiting lists as long as

your are made in your aesthetics but you

do that because you want to but when you

came to the point of reducing down your

NHS significantly how did you plan to

leave the security well this is the

thing that I hinted at before with the

that that a stepwise plan gives you

certainty to act so we actually had this

rather exciting year starting I think

was in June when oh it knows when I

would have finished and I knew that I

knew we had this plan to get we knew how

to get clients so we're going to

replicate that formula and get enough so

we could we basically hired if

effectively four members of staff of

having not taken a penny out of the

business for three years so you and I

just basically saved a lot we had enough

reserves to take a punt but we knew this

is the scary thing we knew at that point

at the moment we hide all those staff

that we were going to start making a

loss I wasn't actually generating enough

to pay

we had this formula that was going to

get us by I think December or January

into profit again so is literally like I

remember thinking is like a plane

heading into the ground gaining speed

and you're trying to pull up and you've

got a plan to how to pull up but that

was that was my leap into aesthetics was

okay I trust the plan let's replicate it

and go for it

healthily there and you know we pulled

up you'll just to clarify you'll leap

into away from the NHS it's a farce

you've already been an asset for three


yeah but I'd stopped my NHS income and

I'm trying to replace it with aesthetics

and and changing the business a lot so I

cut off one income full throttle on the

other income or on the plan to get the

other income up so it's the same

principle it's like just just look at

the numbers now

and when we say the numbers we don't

mean some ridiculous spread tree or

anything like that it's just basics

isn't it it's like you keep it simple

yeah but what's it what does your

average client spend how much money is

left over and what do you need because

the big mistake people make is I think

if you sell something for two hundred

pounds and your product cost 100 pounds

your profit is a hundred pounds well

it's not because some of your time must

be spent earning money so that you can

eat like there's no other option that

you have all that's what your wages so

you have a wage then you have you know

you need to you need those your direct

cost you probably have to pay some

Commission or a prescriber so that comes

off it as well insurance insurance is an

indirect cost but there that's all

pulled in and so your indirect costs

you're also going to have to if you want

to say in this was in this industry get

more training that's in there as well

there's a cost that you have to keep

spending I still doing training now you

have to keep paying for training that

goes into your cost as well so what

you're really leftover is much smaller

than most people think and because they

get their calculation wrong they they

you lose interest because you think

physically isn't you're not making any

money so why would you keep going so

would need to do at the beginning is be

realistic but still know that there is

absolutely alive here and and what tends

to happen is that people who stick at it

and are realistic they fall

head-over-heels in love with it and and

then they have this beautiful thing you

know it's there

there's two create and craft and and to

add that beautiful value and job

satisfaction yeah well the one thing I

did really well at the start of it is I

accepted the advice of the person who

told me what prices to choose instead of

um basically listening to the Marco who

of course wanted as cheap as possible so

you know and we still get calls today

and we always have right from the

beginning saying oh I can get it cheaper

elsewhere and if we listen to all those


we'd be charging in a hundred pounds of

mail and we definitely wouldn't exist so

it's there's an element of um pricing

correctly taking the advice and then

yeah you may you may not get five

clients as quickly as if you're cheaper

but it'll actually worth your time

seeing those clients and you've got time

and money left over to reinvest in your

business so it doesn't have to be no I'm

not you don't have to charge a fortune

but definitely don't if you compete on

price you're you're on to a loser unless

you've got some other niche that you're

gonna you're going to get a lot of

attention somehow there are people who

do on price but there's not room it's

not a room for a lot of people to be the

cheapest in town there's only one spot

everyone else is on to loser so looking

back these eleven years do you are you

glad that you made the decision to come

into aesthetics or do you sometimes

fantasize about just a quiet life in GP

no I'd rather die that the reason being

that when you say a quiet life in GP I

love general practice and I love the NHS

is a very noble thing and it's so

valuable and I I respect the hell out of

everyone who and I'm so grateful for all

those clinicians who just devote all

their time for that but me personally I

need growth I need new things I need

excitement I want I want to be really

really challenged like completely out of

my comfort zone at least once a year I

need to feel like Jesus this is a whole

new thing that I've got to learn now and

you know at this podcast an example of

that the first time I did it was no so

first time I did a video it's still

online terrified little talking corpse I

always say it's hardly moving at all

because I was so scared and so I don't

think I would have done that in GP so

it's it's not it's a saying it's not

really about what you get it's about who

you have to become and that journey

worth worth more than any money I'll

ever earn from it like I've learnt so

much about life and you know myself and

that is that's really what it's all

about like obviously it's difficult it's

not if you if you just want an easy life

don't start your own business

but if you're up for something you know

really testing yourself and learning and

growing and mastering new skills then

absolutely like you're gonna get that

even if you fail but but that's the

thing to do it for which is you want to

see what you're capable of and all the

beautiful relationships you make along

the way as well yes I like which I like

the anime you can make beautiful

relationships than the NHS though but

this is this is different your own

business is a bit more like it's Wilder

oh yeah it's more intense that's Annie

Wilde oh but it is when you see someone

light up because now they can go

confidently to their first date that

they've had since they were divorced so

they haven't had a date now for you know

23 years and you've given them the

confidence by doing their Botox like

it's totally beautiful and that's and at

that moment even if you don't carry on

with that relationship it's it's a

beautiful thing to behold to see in

someone else's eyes well that I hundreds

don't agree with like there are very

stories I can tell you that actually get

emotional about trying to get her and

trying to retell them because it's it's

so amazing to me I one of them I'll

quickly tell is in someone who who had

looked after her mother with dementia

for ten years and she felt like she'd

lost ten years of her life she used to

be really into dancing and that was one

of her that was her identity I'm a

dancer and she gave it up for ten years

and then she got to the end of looking

after a mother and she thought she'd

lost it she thought about going back to

dancing and she just thought her story

was I'm too old

I just don't belong on the dance floor

anymore it's over and she came and saw

me about it

we had a long chat got this whole story

out did a really good procedure that

worked fantastically on it and it put

her back on the front foot and she went

dancing and I'm like that's amazing like

you don't really think about your your

face being the thing that's stopping but

this is what people are like like they

have a story running about some element

of them

I was holding them back you changed the

story for them with your skills and they

literally go and live a different life

it's it's so beautiful that you can do

that and I knew you can you can tie

those pieces together for someone

yes incredibly rewarding but that's what

I'd say is that's in terms of my

personal needs that's like that's high

on that it's quite far on the list of

needs that people meet at the normal

sequence and you can try and do it all

simultaneously but it's you know there's

it's that hierarchy of needs like

certainty a lot of people go into

ascetics because they want to increase

their cash flow because there's more

month and money and why not you know

we've had great stories from people in

the mindset group of real situations in

their lives where they didn't have

enough money to support their kids in a

way that they wanted to and they thought

screw that I'm not putting up with that

I'm gonna do something and those people

got certainty out of ascetics they now

have enough leeway in their life to give

their kids the things that they want and

I think that's great but that's that's

number one of the less certainty for a

lot of blog people you might then get

significance a lot of people and there's

something a lot of NHS workers will

resonate with you feel a bit lost in

your environment you're just another

person in the team and you do your best

and you're trying to help each patient

but it's a conveyor belt and you

sometimes wonder would anyone notice if

you weren't there or not and or maybe

they they notice when you're not there

but there's no there's no significance

to it like you're not doing anything

that someone else couldn't do but you

think in your heart I think there's more

to me than just providing that

foundation layer and there's also the

thing that resonates thought of me is

variety and growth like doing new things

maybe you just bored with a repetition

of the same job and maybe you've got all

the skills you can imagine getting in

that arena and you want you want growth

a lot of people I know dr. Sharon Lee

works with us loves new things she's all

about growth and getting better and

improving and that's something resonates

with me as well I love that I love to

feel like there's more that I can learn

and do and I never feel like I'm

finished I've always feel like I'm just

starting it so growth is important and

and then you get on to contribution

which is what you're talking about which

is the most beautiful one of all because

it's that's the imprint that you leave

on the world while you're here and

absolutely but I'm trying to picture

this from someone who's just look

at starting aesthetics or just in the

early days you may not have had that

that drive yet it's something that comes

as you meet your other needs is you know

once I'm not not worried about whether

I'm I'm gonna cause a complication or

not and I'm starting to give in to the

givings phase then then you get that

long lasting the stories you remember

for the rest of your life and that

you've done for people so that's you can

meet all your needs through aesthetics

but it's probably a sequence that you go

through yeah oh wow I may need to go

back down memory lane I've enjoyed it

and I love hearing I love sort of

recapping on the rise I love seeing

other people's rises as well and

recapping yours and my rise as well this

is gorgeous thing thank you yep well

we're both doing things we never thought

we would do and a podcast is one of

those things but there's endless things

we've had to do and there's more in the

future we're still doing still getting

out of our comfort zone thanks to having

our own business which is um which is a

great thing a wonderful vehicle yeah

okay thank you all very much for this

thing I was interesting any questions or

comments or if you think someone else

would like to hear this if you tagged us

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I know we've got a few reviews now

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very much